Trump - 4 more years of this at least...

[mashman]

Was the 2020 outcome a reaction to the shitfight that was the US Covid response?

The evidence would suggest that the last election was stolen

[pete376403]

Are you suggesting that's the reason she lost? A lot of polls were showing dissatisfaction with the last 4yrs of government. Or is it just racism and sexism?

I would say it had a bearing on the outcome.

[Grumph]

The evidence would suggest that the last election was stolen

Rubbish. No evidence has ever surfaced of a stolen election.

What a comparison of the two elections does suggest is that the racist, misogynistic electorate chose a convicted criminal
over a woman of colour.

The US deserves everything coming to them. Those who will not learn from history are condemned to relive it.

[F5 Dave]

We like to think we are enlightened, but it wasn't long ago that if you got on a plane and found the pilot was female you might be shocked at the concept and say an extra prayer. You knew your doctor was a man and you wouldn't hire a woman into an executive role to do a man's job.

It's no surprise that there are so few women in their political system of any real power. Much of America seems to be living in the past.

A Great Again past apparently.

I woke feeling disappointed in the American women folk in particular. They had the numbers to sink him.

It takes some clutching to your imaginary moral compass to overlook his very unchristian behaviour and disregard of your gender.

[Kb2020dope]

Thank you our lord and savour for keeping Trump as president.

I am over the moon - time to celebrate all night!

To the Democrat/Anti Trump/Harris supporters on here - hard luck, keep your chin up.

Amen! What a wonderful result for the US and the world!

Looks like there are a few un happy campers on this thread. Let's strive to offer any support they need and most importantly be gracious in success.

I'm thinking of organising a trump celebration BBQ if you are interested.

[mashman]

What a comparison of the two elections does suggest is that the racist, misogynistic electorate chose a convicted criminal over a woman of colour.

The US deserves everything coming to them.

The last 5 elections somewhat rule out the race angle, unless murca suddenly became racists again... or indeed decided to put paid against the myth that once you go black you never go back.

None of us do... but hey, with political education being what it is, it's not hard to see why it remains that way.

[Laava]

One thing I have found ironic is the MAGA retards that have a notion that a deity is responsible for Trunt getting elected.
_{If there was a god that matches the description of what many would call 'christianity' and said god was bestowed with pure virtue etc etc forgiving, humble, non judgmental etc, then it is pretty hard to imagine this supreme being as endorsing a narcissistic, megalomaniac, bent on revenge.}
Pretty poor form america.

[TheDemonLord]

So, I first want to post this crappy little Excel Graph that I took a few minutes to make. Look at the line with Vote Totals, there are some outliers - for example Obama in 2008 is a big jump - but he was widely popular - both right and left agree he was massively popular.

Then you have Biden. This result, statistically, sticks out like a sore thumb.

This does not prove there was fraud, it was stolen or fortified or whatever. I do not have the evidence for that. All I am saying is that Bidens vote count on 2020 is exceedingly suspicious. Especially when the vote tallies before and after for both Trump, Hilary and Kamala are all in-line with each other.

To put it blunty: Biden's vote tally in 2020, now that we've seen both the Republican and Democrat vote tallies in 2024, Stinks.

Now - onto why Kamala lost.

Firstly - it has nothing to do with Sexism or Mysoginy.

The major issue was the Economy - I have been banging on about it for umpteen years - but it is really simple: The Trump economy was good, the Biden Economy with record inflation was terrible. Kamala was Biden's VP and so the smell of shit from Bidens administration clung to her.

Followed a close second by the Border. Trump has some of the lowest illegal migration numbers and then Biden opened up the flood gates.

Next up - Foreign Policy - Less War globally under Trump, more war Globally under Biden (and therefore Harris).

Then you have the likes of the Amish in Pensylvania - they are not an inherently political block - but the Democrats tried to interfere with them, they voted against it.

Something else to note - Most Americans like Israel and the Jews - seeing the left response (in some cases, directly supporting Hamas) and seeing how this was tolerated and accepted - did not help.

Then you have all the Social/Woke stuff - only a fringe minority of Communists want it - the mask has slipped for the wider populace and they are no longer on board.

Abortion - This was supposedly the golden ticket the Dems had to Victory - but as it turns out - like when Roe was being decided - the biggest voting block who oppose Abortion is..... Mothers!

Now onto Kamala and her Campaign itself - because there are 3 key things here that lost her:

1: Her refusal to do longform, unscripted interviews. This was a master-stroke by the Trump team - to do the big Podcast circuit. 2-3 hour conversations, uninterupted by Fact Checkers or blatantly partisan questions. And the whole Trump team was doing them: Trump, RFK, Vivek, Thulsi, Vance etc. Something someone else mentioned is that whilst Trump is a big picture guy (Sorry Sugi) - the likes of Vance and RFK did an excellent job of turning that broad stroke into something more focused, which helped explain it to the populace.

The average person who listens to these got to see the real people behind the public persona, not the wildly distorted headline. Kamala shot herself in the foot by not doing these.

2: She failed to distance herself from Biden. I mentioned alot the failings of the Biden administration - and as the VP, she is partially responsible. Never once did I hear Kamala say: This is what I am going to do different than Biden. She could have framed it in terms that whilst a VP, her loyalty is to the President - but now she has a different vision for the country - but she didn't.

3: Zero Accountability. I think, if there was a single answer that sunk her presidential run it would be when she was asked about the Border and why had they done nothing in 4 years - and her response "But Donald Trump has been running for office for 4 years" Everything bad in the world is Donald Trumps fault and everything we did was perfect.

She took zero accountability and had zero leadership and was soundly defeated as a result.

The fact that the cries of Sexism and Mysoginy are used as scapegoats only serve to reinforce this point.

[roogazza]

Nice that this thread can die a natural death now ?

I see Woman of Colour, mentioned a couple of times....and was thinking what am I ?

A Man of Whiteness ????????

Anyway its all over now !

[onearmedbandit]

It reminds me of the weak retort many had when Jacinda Ardern faced criticism (like all politicians do), which of course was "you just don't like having a woman tell you what to do". So when it's a male politician it's because of his character, his decisions, his policies, his wealth, his friends etc. But when it's a female it therefore can only be because of her gender. Kinda sexist don't ya think....

[Grumph]

Nice that this thread can die a natural death now ?

I see Woman of Colour, mentioned a couple of times....and was thinking what am I ?

A Man of Whiteness ????????

Anyway its all over now !

Unfortunately it's not over.

NZ has a history of going where the US drags us. The Five Eyes net and ANZUS tie us to the US for better or worse.
Plus if Trump starts the promised trade war it will without doubt affect us too.

If this term is to be like his last -but with the guardrails removed - there will still be plenty to discuss.

[TheDemonLord]

Yesterday I finished Gloating - but I want to write something a little more serious. Here are my hopes for the second Trump Presidency.

1: I would like to see the US economy improve. When the US does well, we do well.
2: I am interested to see if his Tariff policy happens and what the impacts are. There are a lot of University Economists who are naysaying it - but suffice to say, my opinion of them is not terribly high.
3: I would like to see Trump drasrtically shrink and restrict the power of the Federal Government, in similar fashion to Argentina. My hope is that we will get to see the experiment run on a large scale as to what happens to a modern western country when the Government shrinks.
4: I want to see the US become a net exporter energy, hopefully will have an impact on our fuel prices
5: I am keenly interested to see what happens to various Global conflicts under a second Trump Presidency. Will they escalate, will they continue, will they calm down? My hope is that we will see a reduction in wars, either in the form of a cease fire or even a negotiated settlement.
6: I would like to see the ripples of the US election go to other countries. Here, the UK, Aus etc. showing that one does not have to accept the left-wing a priori positions on issues in order to win Elections.
7: I want to see States rights issues be debated and resolved at the State level.
8: De-regulation where appropriate.
9: Restoration of the southern Border. People smuggling is a horrible business and is encouraged by a leaky border.

Overall, I want to see a revived economy, a reduction in wars, reduction in government largess and an increase in freedom.

If the Democrats are smart (I doubt it), then since Trump cannot run for a 3rd term, they should stop the Lawfare, stop the impeachment attempts and keep their attacks above board and within the realm of acceptable political discourse - accept the Loss and move on.

[neels]

1: I would like to see the US economy improve. When the US does well, we do well.

Maybe, for the share market and influence on worldwide interest rates.

2: I am interested to see if his Tariff policy happens and what the impacts are. There are a lot of University Economists who are naysaying it - but suffice to say, my opinion of them is not terribly high.

The US already has significant tariffs on a wide range of things, which the Biden administration has already increased. US industry is inefficient and needs protectionism to minimise competition, without the tariff on electric cars from China for example Tesla would probably cease to exist.

3: I would like to see Trump drastically shrink and restrict the power of the Federal Government, in similar fashion to Argentina. My hope is that we will get to see the experiment run on a large scale as to what happens to a modern western country when the Government shrinks.

That probably needs to happen everywhere, where there seems to be a ministry for bloody everything with all of the associated regulations and overheads.

4: I want to see the US become a net exporter energy, hopefully will have an impact on our fuel prices

More likely that they would increase production for domestic supply to reduce imports, but not at a high enough level to reduce world prices and reduce their export income.

5: I am keenly interested to see what happens to various Global conflicts under a second Trump Presidency. Will they escalate, will they continue, will they calm down? My hope is that we will see a reduction in wars, either in the form of a cease fire or even a negotiated settlement.

Has already talked about removal of support for Ukraine, likely leaving no option but a negotiated settlement ceding territory to Russia, not a great precedent to set, but demonstrates how totally ineffective the UN is.

6: I would like to see the ripples of the US election go to other countries. Here, the UK, Aus etc. showing that one does not have to accept the left-wing a priori positions on issues in order to win Elections.

Much of the world already seems to be drifting in that direction, with the realisation that pouring money down bottomless virtue signalling pits doesn't lead to any meaningful improvement

7: I want to see States rights issues be debated and resolved at the State level.

That lasts until the next federal decree overriding the state decision, and around it goes again.....

8: De-regulation where appropriate.

The problem being defining appropriate. There are individuals and corporations that will take as much as they are able to, without regard for the consequences

9: Restoration of the southern Border. People smuggling is a horrible business and is encouraged by a leaky border.

The stronger the border the more extreme and dangerous the methods used to smuggle people. Migration happens because things are bad where they are coming from, in a lot of cases as a result of US foreign policy, fix that and the migrant problem will reduce itself.

If the Democrats are smart (I doubt it), then since Trump cannot run for a 3rd term, they should stop the Lawfare, stop the impeachment attempts and keep their attacks above board and within the realm of acceptable political discourse - accept the Loss and move on.

With the presidency, senate and congress there's probably very little the dems can do anyway.
Let him have his four years unchallenged, thus giving him nothing to bitch about and nobody else to blame, and the country can sit back and enjoy what the voted for.

[Berries]

Wait until he changes/ignores the rules allowing him to be Supreme Leader and have more than two terms in office.

[HenryDorsetCase]

We like to think we are enlightened, but it wasn't long ago that if you got on a plane and found the pilot was female you might be shocked at the concept and say an extra prayer. You knew your doctor was a man and you wouldn't hire a woman into an executive role to do a man's job.

It's no surprise that there are so few women in their political system of any real power. Much of America seems to be living in the past.

A Great Again past apparently.

I woke feeling disappointed in the American women folk in particular. They had the numbers to sink him.

It takes some clutching to your imaginary moral compass to overlook his very unchristian behaviour and disregard of your gender.

America's problem is the preponderance of religiosity. They were fucked from the start because Puritans. With that comes intolerance, greed, fear of the "other" whatever that is, preponderance of unquestioning obedience, submission to fascism, basically everything that should be anathema in modern society.

You can compare it directly with the Scandinavian countries where there is a much smaller dependence on stone age bullshit, and a corresponding increase in civil society. It really is that simple in my view.