Trump - 4 more years of this at least...

[R650R]

Trump was basically broke then made a miraculous recovery financed by Russian money. Eric said it out loud, we get all the money we need out of Russia. Even the most generous interpretation makes him indebted to Russia. My interpretation is not so generous. I believe it quite possible that he's basically the front man for a Russian money laundering operation. He absolutely is a Russian asset.

Care to explain further how the most scrutinised person in the world is getting money from a country that has its finances bricked by the swift (west)and IBS control. So badly that they have now set up their own system under BRICS with China and others????

[sugilite:Me]

Care to explain further how the most scrutinised person in the world is getting money from a country that has its finances bricked by the swift (west)and IBS control. So badly that they have now set up their own system under BRICS with China and others????

Yes, extremely easily through trumps crypto coin.

[R650R]

It is funny how almost all the news outlets cut the speech at the exact same point and omit the following statements.

I disagree with Trump on his phrasing of this aspect.

However - one look at European history will show many times there have been buffer states between 2 great powers. Whilst people say that it is a Russian narrative - The expansion of NATO is something that Russia has a right to have legitimate concern over.

To say unilaterally that there is no Russian perspective on this issue or to disregard it entirely is folly.

The cut part of the speech though is what I find more interesting - What is Trumps concern: The loss of Human Life.

It seems to me that Trump is setting the stage to allow Putin to save face.

Yeah I seen those clips too, he has been consistent and genuine in talking g about the loss of life and how bad and underreported it is on both sides.

Trump is a business man and he knows war is an expensive unprofitable business for a nation.
He’s prob acutely aware of the coming food crisis for the west. The war plus BRICS is taking a lot of grain and fertiliser out of our supply chain plus rising costs are crippling USA grain farmers.
To make USA great again the best way is with certain cheap raw materials out of China, Russian and Ukraine territories.

[TheDemonLord]

Ironically a weakened Europe (militarily) is the direct result of US foreign policy (particularly in the case of the then West Germany) – the US security guarantee was part of the reconstruction plan for Europe after WWII and had the added bonus of providing the US with a buffer against the growing influence of the Soviet Union and a whole bunch of ready-made allies to legitimise its other military excursions.

That the US didn't alter the terms of that deal after the fall of the Soviet Union isn't the Europeans' fault. President Trump blaming them for not spending enough on defence when not re-arming Europe and projecting US power was the original idea of NATO is a bit rich, he should be blaming all the other Presidents from the 1990s onwards (including himself).

Next step will be the US withdrawing its troops, closing its bases and repatriating its nuclear ordinance, while Putin watches on from Kyiv. What a strange world we now live in.

I gotta disagree here (obviously):

From NATO itself, talking about the 2% GDP Commitment

Again from NATO, showing which countries are not hitting their 2% GDP Commitment

Now that no one can argue the sources are biased - This is something Trump has been saying since 2016 - that the European countries are not paying their fair share, relying on the fact that the US is the big stick. The Graphs show this has been a problem since at least 2014.

If all the NATO countries were at or near their obligation for their Defense expenditure, I suspect we would be seeing a slightly different tune. Not completely different - as there are still a strong faction of American Isolationists (who are tired of footing the bill to be the world police) - but for the more moderates - the argument is less persuasive.

I see these problems are most from european and specifically the EU sensibilities than any issue from the Americans.

[nerrrd]

I gotta disagree here (obviously):

From NATO itself, talking about the 2% GDP Commitment

Again from NATO, showing which countries are not hitting their 2% GDP Commitment

Now that no one can argue the sources are biased - This is something Trump has been saying since 2016 - that the European countries are not paying their fair share, relying on the fact that the US is the big stick. The Graphs show this has been a problem since at least 2014.

If all the NATO countries were at or near their obligation for their Defense expenditure, I suspect we would be seeing a slightly different tune. Not completely different - as there are still a strong faction of American Isolationists (who are tired of footing the bill to be the world police) - but for the more moderates - the argument is less persuasive.

I see these problems are most from european and specifically the EU sensibilities than any issue from the Americans.

Sure, but since we acknowledge that the US is the big stick in NATO, they've had thirty odd years since the end of the Cold War to prod the Europeans into paying their "fair share". I suspect the reason they haven't is more to do with the US wanting to maintain its global influence than European intransigence for the sake of it.

I'd also argue that the fact the Cold War ended, the response to 9/11 (where NATO gave the US political and material support), the 2008 financial crisis, and the sheer number of member states, each facing their own individual economic and political realities are all mitigating factors for that, and spending has increased steadily since Russia decided to start reabsorbing Ukraine. It's hard to find solid data on how much money has gone to Ukraine since the invasion proper, but it's not a trivial amount on the European side.

I still think that the prospect of President Trump ending support for Ukraine and blaming them for prolonging the war is nuts, it's effectively rewarding Russia for its use of deadly force where it was never warranted. If he also takes the US out of NATO, the most likely result in my mind is an arms race between the Europeans and Russia, with more states having more nukes the most likely result, or even worse, pre-emptive military action to try to prevent that, and Europe goes BOOM (again).

[sugilite:Me]

Cockwomble trump loves a fellow criminal, that love even extends to a democratic mayor up on corruption charges. The orange one wants his "justice" department to drop the charges for no good reason. Several prosecutors have already resigned over this. This fuckwit shows his disdain for the law daily.

[husaberg]

The orange cockwomble is also saying zelenski is a dictator, while he himself is faithfully following the Hungarian model pathway to dictatorship.
Saw a moment of fox's hanity interview with cockwomble trump and cockwomble musk and the first words out of musks mouth was an abject lie saying the two astronauts were stranded on the space station for political reasons - no matter an interview with the astronauts in question both saying that was not the case. musk proves over, and over again why he is the last person that should be running doge. I'm all for governments cutting out fraud and wasteful spending,

I am picking the space programme stuff and govt subsidies that benefit musk will not be cut, whilst the oversight of say safety and claims about say driver aids and corruption will get the chop..

[pritch]

Care to explain further how the most scrutinised person in the world is getting money from a country that has its finances bricked by the swift (west)and IBS control. So badly that they have now set up their own system under BRICS with China and others????

Was not is. The Russian money claims were not made yesterday. All of your questions are irrelevant. Eric Trump was apparently quite open about it. There are other well publicised individual events that make no sense other than money laundering.

Can you explain how a broke Trump suddenly starts paying cash for multiple golf courses, all of which are now losing money in massive amounts? Although that's another problem.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZxjYrhlMAQ

[Katman]

This thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1IrRxoRkbQ

[sugilite:Me]

This thread.

It certainly has more staying power than say - how long does it take for a snowflake to melt in Taupo.

[husaberg]

Was not is. The Russian money claims were not made yesterday. All of your questions are irrelevant. Eric Trump was apparently quite open about it. There are other well publicised individual events that make no sense other than money laundering.

Can you explain how a broke Trump suddenly starts paying cash for multiple golf courses, all of which are now losing money in massive amounts? Although that's another problem.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZxjYrhlMAQ

it was clearly a thing as trump tried to say they was no dealing with Russian money or with Russia and it was easy proven to be true and as you said trumps himself was recorded admitting it..
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017...XcTPqmOMFIOTAw
https://time.com/5466878/trump-cohen-russia/
https://apnews.com/article/f109a5392...60fa68176a9c98
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busine...rump_in_Russia

[Pursang]

[TheDemonLord]

Sure, but since we acknowledge that the US is the big stick in NATO, they've had thirty odd years since the end of the Cold War to prod the Europeans into paying their "fair share". I suspect the reason they haven't is more to do with the US wanting to maintain its global influence than European intransigence for the sake of it.

I mean, Trump has been talking about this issue for almost 10 years. There is probably layers - but the common refrain I hear from the pro-isolationist side is something like this:

We are all members of a club, everyone else isnt paying their membership fees and we are stuck with the Bill
and
If Europe was to pay its own way for its own defense, that would be a more effective deterrent for Russia.

I'd also argue that the fact the Cold War ended, the response to 9/11 (where NATO gave the US political and material support), the 2008 financial crisis, and the sheer number of member states, each facing their own individual economic and political realities are all mitigating factors for that, and spending has increased steadily since Russia decided to start reabsorbing Ukraine. It's hard to find solid data on how much money has gone to Ukraine since the invasion proper, but it's not a trivial amount on the European side.

There are definitely factors, but even with Austerity in the UK and the issues there, the UK managed to maintain its 2 percent commitment.

I see this as more an issue of EU and European attitudes towards defense than anything else.

To be clear though - I am not saying the EU hasnt sent equipment and helped out. More that the EU states tend to see Defense as much lower down the spending priority.

I still think that the prospect of President Trump ending support for Ukraine and blaming them for prolonging the war is nuts, it's effectively rewarding Russia for its use of deadly force where it was never warranted.

The paying for Foreign wars part - like it or not, that is something that is a campaign Promise of Trumps. Many Republicans and even moderate Democrats are tired of paying for foreign involvement.

There is much I am not liking about the current signals coming from the Trump camp - Yes, it is possible for me to be Critical of Trump.

However, my suspicion is that this is more about paving a way to allow Russia to withdraw or cease fire and save face. Some of the other mumblings around Zelenski suggest that this may also be the case.

Imagine a deal for a moment where the Russian Separatist regions (which do exist - I suspect they get ample Kremlin funding, but there is no doubt there is an organic part of the movement) go to Russia... But that this is not the sum total of land captured by the Russians at this point, Zelenski steps down - the Russian Narrative will be:

We went in, we defeated the Azov Battalion, we liberated those who want to be a part of Russia and we toppled a corrupt Politician.

That gives Putin the 'Win' he NEEDS to sell the ceasefire or ending of the war to the Russian people.

And like it or not - Russia is the one that needs to be dealt with because they have the Nukes and they are not relying on foreign aid to continue the war.

The alternative would be an extended proxy war, with the goal of toppling Russia. Say what you want about Putin and the Russian Government - I dont think that would be good for the Russian People or for the world.

It is dirty, I do not like it, but to quote Trump himself:

I want everyone to stop... Dying.

If he also takes the US out of NATO, the most likely result in my mind is an arms race between the Europeans and Russia, with more states having more nukes the most likely result, or even worse, pre-emptive military action to try to prevent that, and Europe goes BOOM (again).

A very interesting theory.

I dont think Europe would go Boom. The possibility of an Arms race is interesting - the key thing though is that unlike previous parts of history, the European nations (not including Russia) are neither equipped or spoiling for a Fight. Except Poland... and maybe Finland.

That said - I didnt think Russia would invade Ukraine and yet they did - so, who knows.

[sugilite:Me]

Musks tiff with the astronauts is pitiful, shades of the cave rescue melt down he had. He proves daily why he should not be anywhere near trumps doge. Near nothing truthful comes out of his mouth these days.
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/0...orbit-00205268

[TheDemonLord]

Musks tiff with the astronauts is pitiful, shades of the cave rescue melt down he had. He proves daily why he should not be anywhere near trumps doge. Near nothing truthful comes out of his mouth these days.
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/0...orbit-00205268

Politico being hostile towards Musk - My, that wouldnt have anything to do with certain funding disapearing, would it...