Trump

[TheDemonLord]

If trump had the balls to actually lead the assault on the Capitol the scary thing is that it may have succeeded.

This is the part that is most relevant.

If the what happened was a serious attempt to seize power - then the participants would look more like this:

https://miro.medium.com/max/875/1*fh...fJd0zHzcA.jpeg

and less like this:

https://i.insider.com/5ffd23dbbde805001980c4d9

And you are right, they may have succeeded and there would be a far higher body count.

I'm happy to call what happened wrong, but to call it a Coup, even by the definition of the word or by comparison to literally any other Coup attempt (failed or successful) is a massive over-reach.

[PrincessBandit]

Bullshit. Apples vs Oranges.

This was an attempted self- coup. Designed to keep him in power.

Fiona Hill - ex CIA international affairs expert who I suspect has organised a couple of coups in her time there spells out the classic steps in an article in the Guardian, Which i can't link to.

Demonise the press - enemies of the people.Place loyalists in positions of power. Cast doubt on the election process - and try to change the results. Refuse to acknowledge defeat. And keep lying....The big lie told often enough will be believed by enough people.

Then wind up the mob.....

If trump had the balls to actually lead the assault on the Capitol the scary thing is that it may have succeeded. With a President leading it in person there would have been enough confusion about chain of command that IMO a hell of a lot of politicians would have been either arrested or dead.

No, it probably wouldn't have lasted - but it might have.

Autogolpe is the term for trumps desperate attempts to remain as Dictator/King/saviour-of-retrumplicans/president-for-life (as he oft pined for a la Putin and others) etc.
Im intrigued that despite the orange one no longer being leader of the USA Fox News are still referring to him as president trump while simultaneously calling President Biden by the correct title. Yet other previous presidents they manage to call “former President”, or simply refer to them by their surname with no mention of their former position.
Of course too Fox’s trump butt-kissers are still winging their hands over the historic second impeachment and how there was “no evidence” of trump’s ‘incitement’. Guess if you choose to be blind then you can plead deniability???

[Viking01]

If that was (ever) a serious coup attempt, then someone forgot to tell the global investment community.

Choose the DJIA chart for 1 month duration using the following link, and tell me when the "coup" occurred.

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/index/djia/charts

[TheDemonLord]

Autogolpe is the term for trumps desperate attempts to remain as Dictator/King/saviour-of-retrumplicans/president-for-life (as he oft pined for a la Putin and others) etc.
Im intrigued that despite the orange one no longer being leader of the USA Fox News are still referring to him as president trump while simultaneously calling President Biden by the correct title. Yet other previous presidents they manage to call “former President”, or simply refer to them by their surname with no mention of their former position.
Of course too Fox’s trump butt-kissers are still winging their hands over the historic second impeachment and how there was “no evidence” of trump’s ‘incitement’. Guess if you choose to be blind then you can plead deniability???

I'm fairly certain that American custom is that for informal usage a President or Vice-President is allowed to continue to use the term after office.

Apparently it also depends on whether you are addressing them directly or indirectly. If I were to address Trump or Obama directly, in an informal setting, then I believe 'President xxxx' is appropriate, whereas if I'm talking to 3rd party, then 'Former President xxxxx' is correct.

If it's a formal event, however then in direct address it's not appropriate, but is for indirect address.

As an example in the debates between Trump and Biden - Biden was referred to as Mr Vice President.

[TheDemonLord]

If that was (ever) a serious coup attempt, then someone forgot to tell the global investment community.

Choose the DJIA chart for 1 month duration using the following link, and tell me when the "coup" occurred.

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/index/djia/charts

As they say, when in doubt, follow the money...

[Viking01]

A few observations about the inauguration ceremony:

https://sputniknews.com/us/202101201...us-ceremonies/

Though I did notice another article that was a little disturbing (if it was true):

https://politics.theonion.com/stray-...ter-1846086877

[pritch]

The followers of Q Anon have hit major cognitive dissonances. Many seem to be finally confronting reality - however belatedly. Still, they seem quicker on the uptake than our local conspiracy theorists.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/qanon...b6efae62fe3d10



And there's this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHBplurKkiI

[sugilite:Me]

This is the part that is most relevant.

If the what happened was a serious attempt to seize power - then the participants would look more like this:

https://miro.medium.com/max/875/1*fh...fJd0zHzcA.jpeg

and less like this:

https://i.insider.com/5ffd23dbbde805001980c4d9

And you are right, they may have succeeded and there would be a far higher body count.

I'm happy to call what happened wrong, but to call it a Coup, even by the definition of the word or by comparison to literally any other Coup attempt (failed or successful) is a massive over-reach.

OK, riddle me this Mr Demonlord - If a portly individual ambles into a bank with a maga hat pulled down over their eyes, they then join a queue for a teller when they spot a security camera and cannot resist to pull the hat off and give an unscripted speech on how their disguise is one of the most beautiful and best ever seen.
He approaches the teller, hands over a demand note written with a sharpie on official government letter head. He shoves over a paper bag, telling the teller to fill it up with cash.
He then gets distracted by a mirror across the way. By the time he focuses back on the job at hand, he hears sirens in the distance. He grabs $5 out of the tellers cash draw and a paper bag, not realizing that was the tellers lunch bag, not the one with the cash in it. He makes a darting break for the door, where he opens up a umbrella too large to fit through it. After finally discarding that, his escape is further hampered - this time by a gently sloping mobility access ramp. Finally he "sprints" down the final 10 foot as he then shuffles across the road and out of sight.
Minutes later the police have followed a stain of orange fake tan lotion across the road from the bank to a burger joint.
They then follow a trail of discarded burger wrappings to the Wherethe lardgoes mini putt golf course - where they then find and arrest the perp.

Now clearly this was the fool of all fools, with no clear plan, and what was planned was executed in the poorest fashion imaginable. The whole heist made a keystone cops movie look like a documentary on sensibility. So considering all of this - was it still a bank robbery?

[pritch]

Damn! Somebody else quoted him.

There were armed militia present. There is a clip of a squad of militia, apparently with some training, moving quickly through the crowd in single file while maintaining physical contact with each other. They definitely had a plan.

As well as being armed, some militia members had zip tie restraints. They were equipped to shoot or to take prisoners.
That was not just an attempt to occupy a building, it was a serious attempt to take over the government. Hopefully this will come out in the subsequent court cases.

TDL, if you didn't keep up with the play, and you don't know what happened, does the thought not strike you that you have no idea what you are talking about?

[TheDemonLord]

OK, riddle me this Mr Demonlord - If a portly individual ambles into a bank with a maga hat pulled down over their eyes, they then join a queue for a teller when they spot a security camera and cannot resist to pull the hat off and give an unscripted speech on how their disguise is one of the most beautiful and best ever seen.
He approaches the teller, hands over a demand note written with a sharpie on official government letter head. He shoves over a paper bag, telling the teller to fill it up with cash.
He then gets distracted by a mirror across the way. By the time he focuses back on the job at hand, he hears sirens in the distance. He grabs $5 out of the tellers cash draw and a paper bag, not realizing that was the tellers lunch bag, not the one with the cash in it. He makes a darting break for the door, where he opens up a umbrella too large to fit through it. After finally discarding that, his escape is further hampered - this time by a gently sloping mobility access ramp. Finally he "sprints" down the final 10 foot as he then shuffles across the road and out of sight.
Minutes later the police have followed a stain of orange fake tan lotion across the road from the bank to a burger joint.
They then follow a trail of discarded burger wrappings to the Wherethe lardgoes mini putt golf course - where they then find and arrest the perp.

Now clearly this was the fool of all fools, with no clear plan, and what was planned was executed in the poorest fashion imaginable. The whole heist made a keystone cops movie look like a documentary on sensibility. So considering all of this - was it still a bank robbery?

In your scenario, yes.

But there's a couple of key differences.

If you can show me a Demand note, written with a sharpie on Official MAGA stationary something to the words of 'we are seizing control of the government' or something similar - then your scenario might hold reflect what happened.

The problem is - no such thing exists. In your scenario, the note is the statement of intent.

Now, if you want to raise the Speech as being the equivalent of a note (in your example) - then let us amend your scenario to reflect what was actually said ("peacefully and make your voices heard"):

hands over a withdrawal request, for a legitimate bank account, which he has ownership of, written with a sharpie on official government letter head

Substituting that into your scenario - the answer is 'No, no Robbery occured', at best you could call the subsequent events clerical error or misunderstanding or a lapse in judgement.

However we've already discussed that particular aspect.

I'm happy to agree there was a protest. I'm happy to call it a riot. I'm happy to see the people that broke the law held accountable for their crimes. I'm even extending my same apathy to the Protestors (who ostensibly I share some views with) that were killed/died in the process. I'll even stretch to an agreement that because the target was part of the Government and that there was a political element that a higher penalty should be imposed.

But a Coup? A serious attempt to overthrow the government and seize the levers of Power? That is stretching much further than the sleeve permits.

[TheDemonLord]

Damn! Somebody else quoted him.

There were armed militia present. There is a clip of a squad of militia, apparently with some training, moving quickly through the crowd in single file while maintaining physical contact with each other. They definitely had a plan.

As well as being armed, some militia members had zip tie restraints. They were equipped to shoot or to take prisoners.
That was not just an attempt to occupy a building, it was a serious attempt to take over the government. Hopefully this will come out in the subsequent court cases.

TDL, if you didn't keep up with the play, and you don't know what happened, does the thought not strike you that you have no idea what you are talking about?

Come now Pritch - either you wish to Ignore or you wish to engage - I hold no malice towards either position but this half-in/half-out is silly.

The part I wasn't sure on was the exact makeup of who had died and how. I knew 5 people had died, didn't know the exact details of the 'Who' and the 'how', I've been corrected and accepted the correction.

There's a photo of 1 guy with Zip-Ties (but I do not believe he was armed).
From the other reports - a total of 5 firearms were seized.

5! Definitely an armed Militia intent on overthrowing the US Government.... And in the US where there are more Firearms than people!

If it was more like 1,000 or even 100 armed militia that broke into the Government building and instead of getting high in the Oregan room went round and systematically took prisoners - then I might be more inclined to agree.

[mashman]

Autogolpe is the term for trumps desperate attempts to remain as Dictator/King/saviour-of-retrumplicans/president-for-life (as he oft pined for a la Putin and others) etc.
Im intrigued that despite the orange one no longer being leader of the USA Fox News are still referring to him as president trump while simultaneously calling President Biden by the correct title. Yet other previous presidents they manage to call “former President”, or simply refer to them by their surname with no mention of their former position.
Of course too Fox’s trump butt-kissers are still winging their hands over the historic second impeachment and how there was “no evidence” of trump’s ‘incitement’. Guess if you choose to be blind then you can plead deniability???

There was no evidence of election fraud enough for a majority of judges to jail the lot of 'em. Guess if you choose to be blind then you can plead deniability

[mashman]

Bullshit. Apples vs Oranges.

This was an attempted self- coup. Designed to keep him in power.

Fiona Hill - ex CIA international affairs expert who I suspect has organised a couple of coups in her time there spells out the classic steps in an article in the Guardian, Which i can't link to.

Demonise the press - enemies of the people.Place loyalists in positions of power. Cast doubt on the election process - and try to change the results. Refuse to acknowledge defeat. And keep lying....The big lie told often enough will be believed by enough people.

Then wind up the mob.....

If trump had the balls to actually lead the assault on the Capitol the scary thing is that it may have succeeded. With a President leading it in person there would have been enough confusion about chain of command that IMO a hell of a lot of politicians would have been either arrested or dead.

No, it probably wouldn't have lasted - but it might have.

Erm...............

[pritch]

Erm...............

Erm what? Trump had recently replaced top people in the Pentagon, and he was placing loyalists in the CIA and NSA in his final days. They will no doubt all be out on their arse immediately - if not sooner.

[mashman]

Erm what? Trump had recently replaced top people in the Pentagon, and he was placing loyalists in the CIA and NSA in his final days. They will no doubt all be out on their arse immediately - if not sooner.

... and yet despite everyone being in place he still lost the election even though he had at least 4 years to plan it. Jog on wilfred.