Trump

[Bonez]

Circulation is guaranteed. The "experts" present results that have been generated by using various computer models. The interpretation of those results is then up for debate, because there is no standard of input across the modelling. All modelling uses weighting to counter for the variable/unknown, and at that point in time, you can make the data tell you any story you like. The politicians then take over. Either they fight the result or they use it to brow beat people to death with. Bet you didn't expect that when you started picking your nose 2/3's of the way through the post, eh, but you did ask

So they pulled it out of their ass. Thought so. Computer modelling will not guarantee they are correct. Other computer models like the climate change wouldn't have to be "corrected" all the time. so much for tecnowjelly.

In fact scientists have cited the Russian climate change model in more accurate than than any other.

[mashman]

So they pulled it out of their ass. Thought so. Computer modelling will not guarantee they are correct. Other computer models like the climate change wouldn't have to be "corrected" all the time.

In fact scientists have cited the Russian climate change model in more accurate than than any other.

They did indeed... just like at the start of the Pandemic when the 2 boss daddy colleges of the world came back with completely different sets of results leaving countries to go their own way.

We'll have killed ourselves before Climate Change actually kills us. It'll certainly make things pretty fucking ugly along the way for lots n lots of peeps, but hey, production outside of sustainability on a finite planet does not a sound strategy make. Thinking otherwise simply isn't thinking. Voting otherwise, ugh... Actually, that's one reason why I consider Trump certifiable... but he's literally one in about 7.8 billion that act the same (as we're all evidencing here)

[TheDemonLord]

So lets start with a very short list of one item.
He knew the virus was dangerous as captured on tape, but he deliberately mislead the public. The idiots that believe his word were denied the information that could of led them to making sound decisions in protecting themselves and loved ones. While Trump is not responsible for all the deaths, there are absolutely deaths that have occurred due to his deception. That is not even covering his ignoring federal guidelines for social; distancing while creating more waves of death with his ego rallies.
Please, no "what about" arguments, or lame comparisons, I want to keep my breakfast down today.
Lets just discuss Donald J Trumps response, or lack of to the virus.

I think I've addressed this in the other thread but I'll recap:

1: I'm not a huge fan of the Federalist system, it creates parallel laws - whereas being British, I tend to take the view that one law should apply to all.
2: That said, the United States is built on the Federalist model and so it is incumbent upon all in the US to uphold this
3: Trump delegated authority to the individual State's Governors to deal with the Virus as they saw fit
4: I personally disagree with this course of action and I think it should have had a Federal response - mainly derived from point 1
5: Despite point 4, and in line with point 2 - what Trump did was entirely in the spirit of the mechanism that the US was built on even if I disagree with it
6: From what we know of the majority of Deaths - there was Co-Morbidity in something like 90+% of cases (Age, Weight, other pre-existing medical conditions) - for which the US has long had issues with
7: Of course, that doesn't mean those people deserved to die, nor does it exonerate Trump's actions entirely.

To conclude then: If you are seeking an Acknowledgement or criticism of Elements of Trumps response to Covid - Sure - I think there should have been a stronger Federal response and that Trump's cavalierness has undoubtedly had an effect on the Death Toll.

However to add to that, I also held the same cavalierness (and still do, to a degree) and that whilst it's easy to judge on the initial death-toll, the long term consequences of various government responses (including NZs) are yet to be known.

[sugilite:Me]

I think I've addressed this in the other thread but I'll recap:

1: I'm not a huge fan of the Federalist system, it creates parallel laws - whereas being British, I tend to take the view that one law should apply to all.
2: That said, the United States is built on the Federalist model and so it is incumbent upon all in the US to uphold this
3: Trump delegated authority to the individual State's Governors to deal with the Virus as they saw fit
4: I personally disagree with this course of action and I think it should have had a Federal response - mainly derived from point 1
5: Despite point 4, and in line with point 2 - what Trump did was entirely in the spirit of the mechanism that the US was built on even if I disagree with it
6: From what we know of the majority of Deaths - there was Co-Morbidity in something like 90+% of cases (Age, Weight, other pre-existing medical conditions) - for which the US has long had issues with
7: Of course, that doesn't mean those people deserved to die, nor does it exonerate Trump's actions entirely.

To conclude then: If you are seeking an Acknowledgement or criticism of Elements of Trumps response to Covid - Sure - I think there should have been a stronger Federal response and that Trump's cavalierness has undoubtedly had an effect on the Death Toll.

However to add to that, I also held the same cavalierness (and still do, to a degree) and that whilst it's easy to judge on the initial death-toll, the long term consequences of various government responses (including NZs) are yet to be known.

A good response, thank you.
Points 1, 2, 4, 6 are to my mind not really Trump related as he largely ignores federal laws and prefers to take control and do things "his" way - laws and constitution be damned.
3, yes, for once Trump decided to delegate - a hospital pass for sure. IMHO he just wanted the Governors to take the heat to protect his reelection chances as best he good. Not much point debating this, as I acknowledge my position is based on pure speculation. Having said that I remember when I mentioned to you way back that if course Trump would have known well in advance how bad the virus really was, you did some pretty passionate defense on how he may not of been - turns out he was well informed on the dangers - if course, how could he not be with the intelligence agencies at his disposal.
5. pretty much related to my point above, he only engaged in the spirit this time because it suited his own cause.
7. Agreed.

[sugilite:Me]

This is a much more balanced CNN article than usual. Would like to see this guy made head achor. The American people would be better serviced, and take warnings more seriously with out the overhype.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/16/opini...ngs/index.html

[Bonez]

This is a much more balanced CNN article than usual. Would like to see this guy made head achor. The American people would be better serviced, and take warnings more seriously with out the overhype.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/16/opini...ngs/index.html

But there already have enough actors there


I just had to do it....

Fredo, Madcow and Lemonhead need to be fired. They lost credibility to most on the US population 2 years ago. CCN has had a downward spiral in viewership for quite a while now apart from some KB Trumpaphobic Snowflakes.. Nikleodian and the garden channel have more viewers.

[pritch]

This is a much more balanced CNN article than usual. Would like to see this guy made head achor. The American people would be better serviced, and take warnings more seriously with out the overhype.

Even handed indeed, but I did prefer the description 'a firehose of lies.' That was more accurate.

Trump even blamed Biden for not making mask wearing mandatory. If anyone can actually make sense of that I'll be interested. Biden is not president - yet.

[husaberg]

This is a much more balanced CNN article than usual.

Would like to see this guy made head anchor. The American people would be better serviced, and take warnings more seriously with out the overhype.

Even handed indeed, but I did prefer the description 'a firehose of lies.' That was more accurate.

Trump even blamed Biden for not making mask wearing mandatory. If anyone can actually make sense of that I'll be interested. Biden is not president - yet.

Trumps own media spokesperson Kayleigh McEnany (the 5th person to have held this job in 4 years) used to be employed by CNN.

[Laava]

This is probably not too far off the mark!

[Bonez]

Biden is not president - yet.

Thank fuck he never will be.


Apart from the Ukraine debacle what did Biden actually achieve as Obamas water boy?

[Bonez]

This is probably not too far off the mark!

I'm sure there is a market for Trump branded hotdogs.

[Bonez]

Trumps own media spokesperson Kayleigh McEnany (the 5th person to have held this job in 4 years) used to be employed by CNN.

Trump only picks the best people you know....

[Kickaha]

Trumps own media spokesperson Kayleigh McEnany (the 5th person to have held this job in 4 years) used to be employed by CNN.

Propaganda Barbie does a very good job, she's a lying bitch but she's good at what she does

Trump only picks the best people you know....

He did very well choosing her, she's articulate and well prepared, she also lies a lot to cover her Boss

[husaberg]

Propaganda Barbie does a very good job, she's a lying bitch but she's good at what she does



He did very well choosing her, she's articulate and well prepared, she also lies a lot to cover her Boss

As I have no doubt was joe Geobels.
I was trying to remember the moniker, it suits her, No arguments from me about her capability either, shes clearly the pick of the 5
I was just pointing out how the trumpers rubbish certain media outlets yet forget the media has to be able to prove what they print or retract it.
Those same rules do not apply to Trumps Tweets or other rubbish.

One of her predecessors.
Sarah Sanders

On April 18, 2019, the first volume of Mueller Report, the Special Counsel Investigation report compiled by Robert Mueller, revealed that Sanders admitted that she had lied when giving a press conference, when she described various things regarding James Comey, the former FBI director. This included lying about the firing of former attorney general Jeff Sessions and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein's connection to the Comey firing, and when she claimed that "countless" FBI agents had lost faith in him. She repeatedly told the press that "countless members" of the FBI had contacted her to complain about Comey, but admitted to investigators that her claims were "a slip of the tongue" and "not founded on anything". When a redacted version of the special counsel's report was publicly revealed, Sanders defended herself, saying that her comments about the FBI agents were made in "the heat of the moment" and unscripted.

Sanders also had lied about President Trump being in charge of a statement regarding the Trump Tower meeting. He worked on said statement with his advisor Hope Hicks, and when the emails about that statement were made public, it was reported that he had helped with it himself According to the report, Sanders also made false statements about when Trump decided to fire James Comey, as well as lying about Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein's involvement in the Comey firing. The revelation of false statements was described by The New York Times as showcasing a "culture of dishonesty" within the White House. Regarding Sanders defending her comments on FBI agents, The New York Times wrote: "It has been a hallmark of the Trump White House never to admit a mistake, never to apologize and never to cede a point. This case was no different."

Sanders' rhetoric about the report was found to be misleading or false. In March 2019, after Attorney General William Barr released a summary of Special Counsel Robert Mueller's report on Russian interference in the 2016 election, Sanders falsely claimed that the investigation's findings were "a total and complete exoneration." The summary of the report explicitly stated it "does not exonerate him."[71] Sanders repeated her suggestion that the report exonerated Trump in May 2019, as well as falsely claimed that Mueller "closed the case." The Associated Press noted, "Mueller did not fully exonerate Trump or declare that a possible case against Trump to be “closed.” While announcing his work was now finished, Mueller specifically left it open for Congress to decide on possible charges of wrongdoing

Sarah Grisham held the position for more than a year during which there were no formal press briefings at all.

On September 23, 2019, when asked by the hosts of Fox & Friends if the White House planned to resume its daily press briefing, Grisham said "not right now... I mean, ultimately, if the president decides that it's something we should do, we can do that, but right now he's doing just fine

Sarah Grisham held the role for more than a year a period during which there were no formal press briefings at all.

[sugilite:Me]

"The Buck stops with President Woodward"