Trump

[Pursang]

[F5 Dave]

And that's totally cool. But ain't no way we're censoring or outright not allowing those who support him to voice their opinion.

Dude, don't be fooled by an obvious troll.
He doesn't erm, 'support ' Trump. He's just trying to get a rise. It's sad but people do this for sad wank.

[husaberg]

[pritch]

“Lies about everything” - to say everything is a bold statement.

But a true one. During the most recent presidential debate virtually everything Trump said was a lie. This was described as a firehose of lies which is a good description. It's very difficult to defend against that because while an attempt is made to counter a lie he will be spewing out several more.

It's also difficult because people, including the press, 'both sides' these issues. If one side is total fantasy treating both sides the same is a recipe for failure.

[Grumph]

I'd also point out that Bolton, a National security Advisor in the previous Trump administration, whose job depended on his being able to give Trump advice he might take, now says that Trump is incapable of discerning between the truth and lies.

When you're offering advice which coukld well make the difference between war or peace, the first thing you'd do is watch your boss for indications as to which way he'll jump. I'm picking Bolton knows the character and habits of Trump better than most.

If Bolton now says Trump spews out a stream of lies, I'd tend to believe him.

[onearmedbandit]

Dude, don't be fooled by an obvious troll.
He doesn't erm, 'support ' Trump. He's just trying to get a rise. It's sad but people do this for sad wank.

lol I'm not fooled by an obvious troll, only those who respond to them are.

[wetanz]

It's sad but people do this for sad wank.

... you might want to invest in a box of kleenex before touching your keyboard

itep statistics[/IMG]

... itep is a 'non-profit' lobby, as usual statistics are abused

... yes, unemployment is often represented as dropping during dem presidencies - due mostly to increased governmental employment paid for by increased taxes and increased deficit (socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money) ... this is a similar problem the nats are facing here in nz atm - labour loaded govt depts, the jackal baled once realising the next elections werent going to go her way, leaving a lame-duck as leader, they lost, nats now have to find a way of paying for the lockdowns etc, leaving the minorities pandered to by the jackal moaning as their disproportionate funding is withdrawn

... think big? - no - think local, act local

[husaberg]

... you might want to invest in a box of kleenex before touching your keyboard



... itep is a 'non-profit' lobby, as usual statistics are abused

... yes, unemployment is often represented as dropping during dem presidencies - due mostly to increased governmental employment paid for by increased taxes and increased deficit (socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money) ... this is a similar problem the nats are facing here in nz atm - labour loaded govt depts, the jackal baled once realising the next elections werent going to go her way, leaving a lame-duck as leader, they lost, nats now have to find a way of paying for the lockdowns etc, leaving the minorities pandered to by the jackal moaning as their disproportionate funding is withdrawn

... think big? - no - think local, act local

Instead of your usual conspiracy talk fest, Show the world your alternative stats ie piss or get off the pot.

lol I'm not fooled by an obvious troll, only those who respond to them are.

Well you do seem to go out of your way to protect them so often OVA, claiming free speech. It seems they are allowed all sorted of special privileges.

And that's totally cool. But ain't no way we're censoring or outright not allowing those who support him to voice their opinion.

multiple accounts, abuse in PM's, abuse in posts. It seems you so often decide based on your own personal feeling, what the forum rules are.

[Dean]

But a true one. During the most recent presidential debate virtually everything Trump said was a lie. This was described as a firehose of lies which is a good description. It's very difficult to defend against that because while an attempt is made to counter a lie he will be spewing out several more.

It's also difficult because people, including the press, 'both sides' these issues. If one side is total fantasy treating both sides the same is a recipe for failure.

Let’s get to the crux of this issue:

Before any of us can find common ground, you need to be willing to separate emotion and distain for Trump from your rational mind.

“Confirmation bias” screams through this thread.

I have responded to your statements with my own recipe of facts, logic and reason - awaiting a response.

I have also called out the “lies” accusation by picking apart the second foundational “lie” that Trump supposedly purported. Regarding tax cuts as per my prior post. When the very pillars of its truth show cracks (the trump lie agenda) then I lose confidence in the remaining structure.

Unless you’re able to provide some evidence and reason around said lies then we can address it specifically.

I have also shown to be critical of trump - acknowledging his errors and shortcomings - which shows a fair, reasonable and mature approach, no?

But yet I haven’t seen you shown criticism to anyone other than trump.
Everyone else is perfect except for Trump?

This is when then the communication breaks down.

[Dean]

Instead of your usual conspiracy talk fest, Show the world your alternative stats ie piss or get off the pot.

He doesn’t need to “get off the pot”.
It is his right to express his views and opinions, irrespective if it doesn’t align with your views.

Well you do seem to go out of your way to protect them so often Fraser. claiming free speech. It seems they are allowed all sorted of special privileges.

He is protecting freedom of speech and expression & nothing else.

multiple accounts, abuse in PM's, abuse in posts. It seems you so often decide based on your own personal feeling, what the forum rules are.

The amount of abuse myself and KB2020 have received on this thread is ten fold.
So in your logic that would make you and the others liable also.

But guess what - freedom of speech.
One could cry about it, but republicans fight for those same freedoms that you benefit from.

And as for this conspiracy that we are multiple accounts - any moderator will see that is not the case.

Thank you, good bye!

[pritch]

I'd also point out that Bolton, a National security Advisor in the previous Trump administration, whose job depended on his being able to give Trump advice he might take, now says that Trump is incapable of discerning between the truth and lies.

When you're offering advice which coukld well make the difference between war or peace, the first thing you'd do is watch your boss for indications as to which way he'll jump. I'm picking Bolton knows the character and habits of Trump better than most.

If Bolton now says Trump spews out a stream of lies, I'd tend to believe him.

I read Bolton's book "The Room Where It Happened" about his time in the White House with Trump. He'd been there before: he had been Ambassador to the UN under Bush 43, Assistant US Attorney under Reagan, and had held other notable appointments. Bolton may be an arsehole but at least he understands how government should function. At his time in the White House late in Trump's tenure that was so rare as to almost be unique. The other people in Trump's White House were ignorant and were engaged in internecine warfare against each other. A dangerous clown show.

Late in Trump's presidency the first job of anybody sane appointed to the White House was to write their resignation latter so that when the time came all it needed was a date. Bolton's departure came after a trip to Europe as National Security Advisor. Somebody told Trump Bolton had used an air force jet. Trump attacked him about that. Bolton explained that was how these things were done. Trump told him to use scheduled airline services in future. Bolton dated his letter and handed it to Trump next morning. Trump promptly announced he had fired Bolton.

You can decide who is lying.

[onearmedbandit]

Well you do seem to go out of your way to protect them so often Fraser. claiming free speech. It seems they are allowed all sorted of special privileges.

multiple accounts, abuse in PM's, abuse in posts. It seems you so often decide based on your own personal feeling, what the forum rules are.

I have no proof of multiple accounts, no proof of abuse in PM's, I see abuse going both ways in the forum. I don't protect anyone or give anyone special privileges. Personal feelings? I don't know 99.9% of the people on here personally, so there are no personal feelings involved. If you don't like any decisions I or the other moderators have made take it to SM.

Here is something personal though. I'm requesting that you don't address me in here by my real name, use my screen name thank you. I have nothing to hide but I don't like people like yourself using my name.

[pritch]

Let’s get to the crux of this issue:

Before any of us can find common ground, you need to be willing to separate emotion and distain for Trump from your rational mind.

“Confirmation bias” screams through this thread.

I have responded to your statements with my own recipe of facts, logic and reason - awaiting a response.

I have also called out the “lies” accusation by picking apart the second foundational “lie” that Trump supposedly purported. Regarding tax cuts as per my prior post. When the very pillars of its truth show cracks (the trump lie agenda) then I lose confidence in the remaining structure.

Unless you’re able to provide some evidence and reason around said lies then we can address it specifically.

I have also shown to be critical of trump - acknowledging his errors and shortcomings - which shows a fair, reasonable and mature approach, no?

But yet I haven’t seen you shown criticism to anyone other than trump.
Everyone else is perfect except for Trump?

This is when then the communication breaks down.

You are doing the "both sides" thing. Trump has been a criminal conman most of his life. The money he inherited kept him out of trouble but there are limits even to that. When he continually commits crimes and he lies virtually non stop your "both sides" just doesn't work.

I'm not arguing with everything you say. That would be wasted effort, anyone still supporting Trump despite all the evidence is too far gone to be saveable.

[Pursang]

LetÂ’s get to the crux of this issue:

We all have had 8 years to observe and evaluate the behavior and performance of djt and family, maga, the Supreme Court, the billioniare sponsors and what remains of the US republican party.

One will either reject that, as a totally unsuitable way to conduct the administration of a democratic country, or say "It all looks just fine to me, let's go again, but harder (project 2025)".

That is the Crux, a change of attitude is practically impossible.

Discussions here are of negligible significance. The question will be addressed by the US electorate in November.

(Declaration: I have a vested interest, my wife is a US citizen who contributed to Social Security for decades.)

[husaberg]

have no proof of multiple accounts, no proof of abuse in PM's, I see abuse going both ways in the forum. I don't protect anyone or give anyone special privileges. Personal feelings? I don't know 99.9% of the people on here personally, so there are no personal feelings involved. If you don't like any decisions I or the other moderators have made take it to SM.

On a personal level I make no bones about the fact that I do not like ....
Because I tire easily of your bullshit. And I don't have a high opinion of you.
.

But lets elevate this huh.
you're more than as troll, but I have no desire to earn an infraction....

And to reiterate, since comprehension is obviously very challenging for you, my point is there are bad on both sides, End of story. I have no further interest in discussing this with a troll.

lol open your eyes. My god you are thick.

---

Here is something personal though. I'm requesting that you don't address me in here by my real name, use my screen name thank you. I have nothing to hide but I don't like people like yourself using my name.

No worries at all ...just people like myself aye...I can clearly see it can't obviously be personal then, but as Onearmedbandit is a bit of a drag to type out are you happy with OVA?