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Thread: Trump

  1. #3106
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    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    No it didn't as per Husa well researched stats.
    So the graph I posted is false then?

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    I did not ask about ab a unrelated Gold star. The mask was to curtail a virus, a star was to mark a specific race and only related in your ever desperate need to win a "point", no matter how ridiculous your premise
    Again, what freedoms did wearing a mask prevent one from enjoying?
    Without getting into the specifics of 'A mask' vs 'A Surgical Mask' and alike - you are missing the point that I'm making.

    What wearing a Mask became was a way for certain groups to show their ideological allegiance.

    In much the same way as the wearing of a Gold Star was to show who the 'good' people were and who the 'bad' people were.

    Freedoms such as not being allowed into Pubic spaces for a start.

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    So by your logic, why have any government mandated laws at all? The mask was a safety measure and from what I can make out in no way prevents one from enjoying freedom.
    See the comment about the british liberal concept of a Natural Right - these are what laws are designed to Protect.

    When access to certain things are conditional on wearing a mask, that is were the restriction is happening 'Can't do XYZ unless you wear a mask'

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    Only idiots that swallowed trumps divisive bullshit swallowed that one. I'm loving watching you write this stuff, it shows how far away from reality you are willing to go to protect the love of your life - trump
    I've never really commented on Masks per se - the science on them was patchy at the start, but it seems that a mask that stops particles of a certain thickness (ie saliva spray) is effective at stopping transmission - what I am commenting on is how the wearing of a Mask became a symbol of Piety for a certain group an a symbol of rebellion for another.

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    And there in a nutshell is your "free pass for trump" in any and every situation - if someone else has done it, then it's ok for trump for trump to do it.
    It's very hard to criticize someone for what is (unfortunately) a standard business practice.

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    And Trump is going to bring such a platform?
    I have no idea, he was pretty popular on the last few social media platforms, so it's a possibility.

    And people laughed as hard at that at the notion he would be the President...

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    As apparrently did you - which I already knew from your statement "followed to the letter". Yeah right.
    Both you and FJ miss the tongue-in-cheek point being made there.

    Socialism/Communism or any other Marxist derived system makes a number of assumptions about the Human experience (assumptions which only a small amount of introspection and observation would disprove), because of that, it is doomed to failure. And it is Doomed in a very specific manner.

    When I say they followed it to the Letter, I don't mean in accordance with the impossible dream outlined by Marx, I mean in accordance to the reality of attempting to achieve such a Dream.

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    Well done, you have just attributed one persons view to hundreds of thousands of people. Top stuff!
    I mean - I point out that most Military Members support Trump - Ah but they are currently Serving
    I could post you umpteen Veteran Military public figures - ALL of them are VERY pro-Trump
    That quote was succinct and summed up best what the feeling is - they know it's a political jab at a political opponent, not a comment on the wider Military experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    Well yes, because no investigation required for you to categorically know it was all above board and within the law. So even though it smells in a spectacularly bad way, nothing untoward happened. Yet an obscure anomaly and those dastardly dems gone done rigged the election. Clearly no bias there huh
    I'm mostly agreeing with you on this point - That it's not in the spirit of the law and could well have had a dodgy component in it.

    If you think an investigation is warranted, go ahead, I'm not entirely disagreeing - only to say that at the point of entry, she had the necessary particulars.

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    The other charges are very much related.
    Except the one charge that actually mattered, the Smoking Gun - that never eventuated

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    I knew you could brush of 61 instances, nice work!
    Okay - let's be clear:

    It's not nice to Insult people
    It's not nice to Insult people based on their appearance

    But it does not show hatred of an entire subset of the human race. To the Contrary, him outlining that some women are able to outsmart Men by using their wits, cunning and femininity shows a degree of admiration for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    I'm always bemused when the same people that at times like to say look to the science when it suits their arguements, then turn around and ignore it when it does not.
    Global warming is a thing mate
    So is a finite set of resources.

    Do I have a solution for it - or a suggested ideology that would solve it?
    Absolutely not.
    As mentioned, my opinion is it will always fail because of human nature.
    I've never said Global Warming isn't a thing - I've pointed out that the Alarmist predictions have not come true. And then pointed to other alarmist predictions that also did not come true.

    I think I've expressed my opinion on this before - but in case you missed it or I haven't. I'm fine with individuals making decisions to reduce their environmental impact. I think Electric Cars (once Battery and Charging technology matures enough that a a recharge takes about the same time to fill a petrol tank and you get the same mileage on a full charge) will be great as there are a lot of advantages that can be had (No need for a Gearbox, constant torque throughout the rev range, Motors per-hub, smart traction control/torque splitting between wheels etc.)

    Where I stop is that the alarmist predictions of the Environmental Activist Scientists have, in the last 60+ years NEVER been accurate. And we have a fairly comprehensive list of some of the claims (which I paraphrased).

    We also have a very very short time-frame in which we have accurate data (relative to Geological time frames). All this is not to say that we shouldn't individually take reasonable steps to help the Environment.

    Only that we should be extremely skeptical of the next Activist Scientist whose career requires there to be a crisis just around the corner in order to justify it's existence and whose ideological beliefs dictate the removal of the Capitalist system.

    As for the final point - When the problem becomes bad enough that it affects people and they are willing to pay for a solution, the Free Market will find a way to fix the problem for a Price.

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    When something as simple and logical as wearing a mask to save lives becomes something to bicker over, fake indignation that some how wearing one curtails freedoms and is also some sort of political statement. Well, there is no hope for such morons, of which there is a vast number of.
    I'm going to start with a partial quote from one C.S. Lewis:

    Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive....
    ...but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
    A mask, in of itself, may be innocuous and harmless, but we have plenty of examples from just the Pandemic response alone where Governments restricted freedoms without the legislation to do so.

    There is also a common trend that a Government will first chance it's hand on something that in principle it should not do, but has little moral or practical objections - only to later on take further liberties on issues where there is a Moral or Practical Objection - but by then the precedent has been set.

    And so in light of the quote above - when the Government says 'This is too dangerous for you, we are restricting your personal freedoms for your own good' - I, as I've stated, stand firmly on the side of Freedom and liberty (and all the dangers therein).
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    The editorial board of the Boston Globe thinks Trump should be prosecuted.

    Here's why. I do realise this will be tl:dr for some.

    https://apps.bostonglobe.com/opinion...erican-tyrant/
    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

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    Yeah but Hillary was running that child sex slave ring and Obama wasn't even American.
    I've been told. Dreaming`s free.
    Think I'll go, back to sleep.
    Everybody listen, voices in my head
    Everybody listen, do yours say, what mine says?

  4. #3109
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    Dunno who's making money off this, but it's as kosher as a three dollar note.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #3110
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    So the graph I posted is false then?
    Yeah man, like Trump says - fake news.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    Without getting into the specifics of 'A mask' vs 'A Surgical Mask' and alike - you are missing the point that I'm making.

    What wearing a Mask became was a way for certain groups to show their ideological allegiance.

    In much the same way as the wearing of a Gold Star was to show who the 'good' people were and who the 'bad' people were.

    Freedoms such as not being allowed into Pubic spaces for a start.
    The part of "Pious Arsehole" has been filled for the upcoming romance movie "Trump - the love story". The part of "Common Sense" is proving somewhat harder to fill


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    I've never really commented on Masks per se - the science on them was patchy at the start, but it seems that a mask that stops particles of a certain thickness (ie saliva spray) is effective at stopping transmission - what I am commenting on is how the wearing of a Mask became a symbol of Piety for a certain group an a symbol of rebellion for another.
    Nice gloss over the fact that your one true love started that dynamic!


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    t's very hard to criticize someone for what is (unfortunately) a standard business practice.
    Actually fairly easy when many supporters had their cards charged several times over a one month period. Nice try at a good ole TDL gloss over job though



    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    I have no idea, he was pretty popular on the last few social media platforms, so it's a possibility.

    And people laughed as hard at that at the notion he would be the President...
    Someone that thought a blog would do the job is hardly going to get out a comprehensive social media platform. How many fairies did you see at the bottom of your garden this morning?




    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    Both you and FJ miss the tongue-in-cheek point being made there.

    Socialism/Communism or any other Marxist derived system makes a number of assumptions about the Human experience (assumptions which only a small amount of introspection and observation would disprove), because of that, it is doomed to failure. And it is Doomed in a very specific manner.

    When I say they followed it to the Letter, I don't mean in accordance with the impossible dream outlined by Marx, I mean in accordance to the reality of attempting to achieve such a Dream.
    Got it, when you state "by the letter" you do not actually mean it



    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    I mean - I point out that most Military Members support Trump - Ah but they are currently Serving
    I could post you umpteen Veteran Military public figures - ALL of them are VERY pro-Trump
    Oh really? https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...e-who-n1240842

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    That quote was succinct and summed up best what the feeling is - they know it's a political jab at a political opponent, not a comment on the wider Military experience.
    I think the opponent he was jabbing was dead at the time. Par of the course for ex president coward.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    I'm mostly agreeing with you on this point - That it's not in the spirit of the law and could well have had a dodgy component in it.

    If you think an investigation is warranted, go ahead, I'm not entirely disagreeing - only to say that at the point of entry, she had the necessary particulars.
    Hahaha, like any investigation goes anywhere in the us, no matter what party launches it



    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    Except the one charge that actually mattered, the Smoking Gun - that never eventuated
    All charges matter



    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    Okay - let's be clear:

    It's not nice to Insult people
    It's not nice to Insult people based on their appearance

    But it does not show hatred of an entire subset of the human race. To the Contrary, him outlining that some women are able to outsmart Men by using their wits, cunning and femininity shows a degree of admiration for them.
    So Trump was actually complimenting them in the midst of (as you admit) being a thoroughly un-nice person. Got it




    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    As for the final point - When the problem becomes bad enough that it affects people and they are willing to pay for a solution, the Free Market will find a way to fix the problem for a Price.
    Except by then if course, it will very likely be way to late.

  6. #3111
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    Trump and his team lying about tear gassing peaceful protestors? Surely not!


  7. #3112
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    Quote Originally Posted by pritch View Post
    The editorial board of the Boston Globe thinks Trump should be prosecuted.

    Here's why. I do realise this will be tl:dr for some.

    https://apps.bostonglobe.com/opinion...erican-tyrant/
    What a load of partisan drivel.

    From a paper that openly supports the Democrats and proclaims their progressive Ideals...
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    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    Trump and his team lying about tear gassing peaceful protestors? Surely not!
    I understand the Australian Government lodged a formal protest with the US Government about this particular piece of "fake news".

    The reason for the complaint is seen at just after 1.00 into this clip.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hblX9QwPDaw
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  9. #3114
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    Lin Wood is a US lawyer, a conspiracy theorist and a Trump supporter, he has been reponsible for some of the court actions appealing Trump's election loss. The State Bar of Georgia, concerned at the state of his mental health, has ordered him to undertake a mental health evaluation to ascertain if he is still fit to practice law. He has appealed - and lost. He is currently still refusing to undertake the evaluation which alone could be sufficient cause for the State Bar to remove his licence.

    If you enter his name in Google you'll get the picture.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisond...h=68839a225137
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  10. #3115
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    Quote Originally Posted by pritch View Post
    Lin Wood is a US lawyer, a conspiracy theorist and a Trump supporter, he has been reponsible for some of the court actions appealing Trump's election loss. The State Bar of Georgia, concerned at the state of his mental health, has ordered him to undertake a mental health evaluation to ascertain if he is still fit to practice law. He has appealed - and lost. He is currently still refusing to undertake the evaluation which alone could be sufficient cause for the State Bar to remove his licence.

    If you enter his name in Google you'll get the picture.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisond...h=68839a225137
    Another lawyer should be very worried

    The New York State Bar Association (NYSBA) strongly condemned the violent uprising that occurred at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, orchestrated by individuals bent on subverting the will of the voters by disrupting the certification of the 2020 presidential election results.

    Thankfully, Congress overcame this assault and fulfilled its constitutional responsibility in certifying the Biden-Harris victory. However, we must address the root cause of this abhorrent incident, the blame for which lies first and foremost with President Donald Trump.

    But the president did not act alone. Hours before the angry mob stormed the Capitol walls, Trump’s personal attorney, Rudolph Giuliani, addressed a crowd of thousands at the White House, reiterating baseless claims of widespread election fraud in the presidential election and the Georgia U.S. Senate runoffs.
    https://nysba.org/new-york-state-bar...ts-membership/
    NYSBA’s bylaws state that “no person who advocates the overthrow of the government of the United States, or of any state, territory or possession thereof, or of any political subdivision therein, by force or other illegal means, shall be a member of the Association.
    addressed a crowd of thousands at the White House, reiterating baseless claims of widespread election fraud in the presidential election and the Georgia U.S. Senate runoffs.
    “If we’re wrong, we will be made fools of, but if we’re right a lot of them will go to jail,” Mr. Giuliani said. “Let’s have trial by combat.”
    https://nysba.org

    Rep. Bill Pascrell Jr. (D-N.J.) filed complaints on Friday in five states against Giuliani and 22 other lawyers working with the Trump campaign, calling for them to be stripped of their law licenses for filing “frivolous” lawsuits and allegedly engaging in “conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit, or misrepresentation.”

    “Donald Trump has done great damage to this nation — but he has always had helpers. These lawyers are enabling his treachery and harming our democracy,” Pascrell told The Post through a spokesperson Monday. He called the campaign legal team’s effort to overturn election results with frivolous lawsuits "misconduct and an affront to the rule of law.”
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




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  11. #3116
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Another lawyer should be very worried
    Yep. Powell too. Although losing the right to practice should just be the beginning. They should all do time, either in a prison or the funny farm.
    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

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    Quote Originally Posted by pritch View Post
    Yep. Powell too. Although losing the right to practice should just be the beginning. They should all do time, either in a prison or the funny farm.
    Well at least one already has been disbarred and had been prisoned at least.
    Michael Dean Cohen (born August 25, 1966) is an American disbarred lawyer who served as an attorney for U.S. president Donald Trump from 2006 to 2018. Cohen was a vice-president of the Trump Organization, and the personal counsel to Trump. He served as co-president of Trump Entertainment and was a board member of the Eric Trump Foundation, a children's health charity. From 2017 to 2018, Cohen was deputy finance chairman of the Republican National Committee.
    Re Lin Wood
    “repeatedly posted incendiary, seditious, and patently false messages on social media,” including implying Supreme Court Justice John Roberts belongs to a sex trafficking ring and calling for former Vice President Mike Pence to face “firing squads.”
    the laywers club also said
    “Under any reasonable measurement of conduct unbecoming, Mr. Wood has crossed that line by a wide margin,” the Lawyers Club wrote. “Mr. Wood’s continued membership in the Club would bring discredit to the Club and its members.”
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  13. #3118
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    If we are all equal, in a perfect Communist utopia, then there is no reason why we wouldn't have perfect representation at all levels, because we would all be equal.
    To use your own words (from a reply you made in another post in THIS thread ) ...

    When I say they followed it to the Letter, I don't mean in accordance with the impossible dream outlined by Marx, I mean in accordance to the reality of attempting to achieve such a Dream.
    Actual fact ... "PERFECT" Communist Regimes do NOT exist. If you CAN ... NAME ONE ... otherwise your posts are (as I stated) ... Complete and total BULLSHIT ... !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    In terms of the Fastest Sprinter - sure, the process for selection in any arena has discrepancies ...
    Considering the BULLSHIT you have already posted ... I have to say YOUR posts have very LARGE discrepancies ... discrepancies you later (as I have quoted above) ... ADMIT.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    To the Marxist, however, since everyone is equal, there should be an equal distribution of top sprinters when compared to the population make up: x% of White people, x% of Black people etc.
    As YOU admitted (as above) ... reality differs from the intended policy of the Communist/Marxist system. Everyone is NOT equal.

    Far from it ... ACTUALLY.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    The first part sounds like "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"....
    Considering there is no sound in this forum ... your "Deafness" is apparent. Selective deafness actually. The equality of having the SAME rights to health, employment, and education ... to name but a few ... is the basis of a civilized community.

    According to "HIS" needs .. ??? (what about "HER" needs) you are not only deaf ... but sexist too ("THEIR" needs would have been correct)... ??? But who decides what "HIS" (or HER) needs are .. ?? And what has ability (to perform what .. ??) got to do with it ... ?? If they HAVE a need ... they wont automatically have an ability to fulfill that need. If they HAVE the ability ... it might seem logical the "Need" might not be there.

    Can you care to explain what the differences between the NEED and ABILITY are ... to get assistance .. ???

    are there different requirements to getting necessary needed assistance ... ??

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    The Collectivist argument goes something like 'You are of xxxxxx descent, therefore you are likely to have Y health needs' - now, to give the Devil their Due, certain ethnic groups do have certain risk factors due to genetic traits and so even from a Liberal position (which would generally favour an individual view) this has a valid reason.
    NOW you say the help New Zealand social services providers are race based ... ??? Does it really matter the ETHNIC BACKGROUND of a person requiring help legally affects/changes the amount (or urgency) of the help that citizens will expect to get .. ??

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    Sure, but again - the Liberal position is that there is Equality of Opportunity - If Me and Bill Gates both end up at Hospital at the same time - The Liberal position is that we are both treated as individuals
    Reality ... If Bill Gates ... and ended up in the same hospital as YOU ... YOU would either be in a private hospital in your own private room. Or ... HE would be in a PUBLIC ward ... and members of HIS staff would be unemployed.

    REALITY sunshine ... Get used to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    Of course the critique is that Bill gates has the money to pay for Private care and so doesn't have to wait and can afford to see specialists etc. but that's outside the scope of the discussion
    REALITY ... I mentioned THAT above too ... you seem to lack a grasp of the obvious ... Please try to keep up.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    It can never end in any other way. The fundamental assumptions that the theory makes are wrong. So yes, they DID follow it to the Letter.
    If the Marxist/Communist Regime was followed to the letter (by your OWN admission at the start of this post it was NOT followed to the letter) ... And so it failed ... in the biggest way possible.

    Government Employee's were not paid on a regular basis ... all Government sector Heads of Departments (junior and senior) were rife for bribery and corruption ... and the common citizen got screwed in any and every way possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    And so the individual is free to choose:

    Do I want to spend my time cleaning my own car
    Even if YOU don't pay someone to clean YOUR car ... How often do YOU clean your OWN car .. ???

    or

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    Do I want to pay someone else to clean my car so I can focus my time elsewhere.
    Like ...

    At the pub .. ??

    At home with family .. ??

    At work/Business .. ??

    BUT ... usually the real reason they pay someone to clean their car is ... because they can (sometimes) afford it ... or ... they let other more important financial demands slide ... for reasons of their perceived priority ... rather than actual importance.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    If it's more valuable for me to spend my time Working/spending time with family than it is to wash my car, then I'll pay someone to do it.
    As above ... the 20 minutes away from your family cleaning your car ... you will never get over.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    Honestly, I think the current Patent/Copywrite laws have gone too far IMO.
    Those with Copyright and Patent rights ... will probably disagree.

    Do YOU have ANY Copyright or Patent .. ?? If your answer is NO ... your answer is to be expected.

    Your logic and common sense in your comments (to date) would preclude that. I think (just my personal opinion) that YOU coming up with something (ANYTHING) original ... would be beyond you.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    I disagree it's a political system. I know that's the Google Definition, however the Wikipedia definition states ...
    Disagree with WHAT .. is Capitalism really political ... or just a reality in a FREE society .. ??

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    Are we a pure Free Market Capitalist system? Not really - too much Government regulation for my liking, but also I'd not want a fully laissez-faire system.
    Rule number one in a "Free market system" ... the Government has to make money in whatever scheme you are running. NO exceptions. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    Well, that's cause we are a Social Democracy, with a regulated Capitalist economic system.

    And I don't mind having a social security system - despite my issues with the current system.
    Bullshit ...it's more like those WITH money have to provide for those with NO money ... and no intention (or ability) to provide their own income.

    But those with NO ability (or intention) to EARN their own income ... still DEMAND equal funding for THEIR own chosen lifestyle.

    Which are you .. a provider ... or being provided FOR ... ???


    SOCIAL Democracy .. ??



    Google Democracy ... here's the result of what I found ...

    a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

    "a system of parliamentary democracy"

    Similar:

    Representative government

    Elective government

    Constitutional government

    Popular government

    Self-government

    Government by the people

    Autonomy

    Republic

    Commonwealth

    Opposite:

    Tyranny

    Dictatorship

    A state governed under a system of democracy.

    Plural noun: democracies


    "a multiparty democracy" .. control of an organization or group by the majority of its members.


    "the intended extension of industrial democracy"

    Which of the above describes the NZ Government system ... ??



    NOT found ... was Social Democracy. Why would that be ... ???




    Personally ... I think you simply allow your imagination more freedom than it deserves.
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    Yeah man, like Trump says - fake news.
    So, to be clear - you are claiming that the BBC (with a demonstrable left-wing Bias) is promoting Fake news in favour of Trump?

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    Yeah man, like Trump says - fake news. The part of "Pious Arsehole" has been filled for the upcoming romance movie "Trump - the love story". The part of "Common Sense" is proving somewhat harder to fill

    Nice gloss over the fact that your one true love started that dynamic!
    As I pointed out - Fauci was originally responsible telling people not to wear Masks, even begrudgingly admitted by various left-wing 'fact-checking' sites.

    The opposition to the mandatory enforcement of Mask wearing rules, however, does not come from either Trump or Fauci - but from a principle of Freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    Actually fairly easy when many supporters had their cards charged several times over a one month period. Nice try at a good ole TDL gloss over job though
    Yes... As you know I help manage IT systems, I can assure you - I've had to investigate multiple charges to peoples cards for various reasons. The part you are missing is the proof that this is due to a deliberate action, as opposed to error.

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    Someone that thought a blog would do the job is hardly going to get out a comprehensive social media platform. How many fairies did you see at the bottom of your garden this morning?
    I mean from the beginning I said without user interaction, it wasn't going to get a lot of traction, the point is however that Trump has been written off as having no hope at achieving something, so I'd be a little hesitant about dismissing him out of hand.


    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    Got it, when you state "by the letter" you do not actually mean it
    So, I will expand on this in my responses to FJR - but let me be clear - I do explicitly mean it.

    Firstly - what you are doing is a variant of this tired old argument: https://www.google.com/search?client...real+communism - an Argument I find particularly distasteful. In your case, you've said you haven't read a lot of political theory - so I'll give you a partial free pass - but to put it into context - you rightly critique my support of Trump and contrast that with the Covid Death-Toll (600,000). So what should my critique of you be when you are repeating the apologia (and therefore giving implicit support to) a system that has resulted in up to 200 MILLION deaths?

    When you look at Marx's theory and you think about it - and I mean *really* think about it - you realise that it is fundamentally incompatible with Humans. I came to that realization when I was about 18 - it's a lovely system in theory - but Human Nature (See all the Marxists believe in Tabula Rasa...) means it can never be implemented as it is defined in theory.

    What you are left with then is the attempt to implement it, as per the theory, always fails and more importantly, always fails with the same results - for the same reasons.

    The attempt is done by the letter - but Reality and theory always Diverge.

    Or to put it another way - If someone had a theory that if you ran really fast and flapped your arms really hard and did it off the side of a Cliff, you could fly.

    The Marxist apologists would say 'Oh but if he just ran a bit faster' or 'The Cliff wasn't the correct type' or 'He needed to make his hands into a bird-like wing shape' or any other apologia and then claim since it didn't perfectly match the theory, it wasn't a real attempt and it will work next time...

    Whereas I would look at the Corpse at the bottom of the Cliff and say 'They implemented the Theory, to the letter - and got the same result as everyone else'

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post


    (God, it's been forever since I've had an excuse to use those Owls)

    https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/fb7...=1620643005025

    And isn't it interesting that the Letter I put forward still is accessible - but when I go to the letter in the article:

    Oh Dear.

    So, I guess that shows just how sturdy and stalwart their 'support' really was....


    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    I think the opponent he was jabbing was dead at the time. Par of the course for ex president coward.
    Many people have been critical of Senator McCain, both before and after his Death. And the loudest of those critics have been Republicans.

    However, https://www.politico.com/story/2015/...aptured-120317

    That was in 2015, McCain died in 2018, So he was very much alive and kicking.

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    All charges matter
    This reminds me very much of the case of British Voldemort (He-who-shall-not-be-named) and his conviction for Mortgage Fraud. I'm certain someone was to look hard enough at most people on this site, they would find illegal dealings and something that a charge could be pinned on.

    But that actual charge that was touted, the one that mattered, the one that we were assured of by CNN? *Nothing*

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    So Trump was actually complimenting them in the midst of (as you admit) being a thoroughly un-nice person. Got it
    Well, hang on a second there Bud - there's something we need to get straight.

    Do you believe in Equality of the Sexes? I'm going to presume you do. That is to say that I, You and Trump should treat Men and Women the same?

    If that is the case, then it must follow that whilst it is not kind or nice to insult someone - If I, You or Trump were to insult a Woman in the same manner that we would insult a Man - then that is, by the above definition, equality.

    If someone was more than happy to insult a Man, but declined to insult a Woman purely on account of her being a woman, that is - by definition Sexism.

    I think I can dispense with the obvious, but for completeness sake - Both you and I agree that Trump is more than happy to hurl Insults at other men.

    The charge you raised against Trump was that he is Sexist and the proof you provided was a littany of insults against Women.

    I could perhaps agree with the assessment if the Insults were based solely on them being Women - but they aren't. Most of them are based upon their actions. And in the list provided there are a number of statements that show he considers them as worthy adversaries - that is to say, being his equal.

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    Except by then if course, it will very likely be way to late.
    So said the Doom-mongers in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s, 20s....

    But we are still here, despite their predictions (and some of them were given in time frames that have since come to pass)

    I personally think the Planet and Humans are far more resilient and so even if we did manage to catastrophically fuck it up, we'd still survive and eventually thrive - it just might suck quite a lot in the short term.
    Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress

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    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    To use your own words (from a reply you made in another post in THIS thread ) ...

    Actual fact ... "PERFECT" Communist Regimes do NOT exist. If you CAN ... NAME ONE ... otherwise your posts are (as I stated) ... Complete and total BULLSHIT ... !!!
    If you want everyone to be equal, the only way to do that is to reduce everyone down to the lowest common denominator. And the only way to do that is through absolute Tyranny.

    When I state that they followed Marx's teachings to the Letter, I mean it. That it fails to achieve the hypothetical end-goal is not my concern. That it always ends up in the same situation is merely grounds for me to point out why the theory is so demonstrably flawed.

    You are looking at the end-state of Communism (which Marx believed would eventually come via Socialism) of a Classless Moneyless society - then looking at all the failed attempts and making a variant of the phrase:

    'See, that wasn't REAL Communism' - a Phrase which I find to be utterly detestable.

    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    Considering the BULLSHIT you have already posted ... I have to say YOUR posts have very LARGE discrepancies ... discrepancies you later (as I have quoted above) ... ADMIT.
    Admit what? Either you agree with me that people are different (which you seem to be doing) and therefore the theoretical end-state of Marx's Utopia is impossible to achieve and therefore even if one takes all the steps outlined in the Communist Manifesto, as per Marx's original vision, it will never achieve the desired outcome.

    My point is that every time someone does what Marx says to do, it doesn't end up where Marx says it will. This does not mean that it hasn't been tried or that it wasn't tried correctly - on the contrary, the real-world examples both at the Macro and the Micro level (e.g. Entire Countries and small Communist Communes) bear this fact out.

    So I repeat my earlier claim - that yes, it was done exactly as Marx said to do it, but in reality it did not produce what Marx said it would.

    Those are not conflicting statements and the lack of the latter does not invalidate the former.

    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    As YOU admitted (as above) ... reality differs from the intended policy of the Communist/Marxist system. Everyone is NOT equal.

    Far from it ... ACTUALLY.
    No - the correct phrase would be:

    reality differs from the intended Outcome of the Communist/Marxist system
    Outcome and Policy are two wildly different concepts.

    And this is where the contention is. You are implcitly saying that because the Policy didn't produce the Outcome, the Policy wasn't tried.

    My statement is that the Policy was tried, but it didn't produce the outcome because the ideal that drove the policy is fundamentally wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    Considering there is no sound in this forum ... your "Deafness" is apparent. Selective deafness actually. The equality of having the SAME rights to health, employment, and education ... to name but a few ... is the basis of a civilized community.
    Those may be Human Rights, but not Natural Rights. Since Health, Employment and Education requires a 3rd party.

    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    According to "HIS" needs .. ??? (what about "HER" needs) you are not only deaf ... but sexist too ("THEIR" needs would have been correct)... ??? But who decides what "HIS" (or HER) needs are .. ?? And what has ability (to perform what .. ??) got to do with it ... ?? If they HAVE a need ... they wont automatically have an ability to fulfill that need. If they HAVE the ability ... it might seem logical the "Need" might not be there.
    It's not my quote, it's from Marx... So you'll have to take the Sexism up with him.

    Ironically, in your critique of Me, you've actually pointed out one of the many issues with Marx - namely Who DOES decide what someones Needs are?

    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    Can you care to explain what the differences between the NEED and ABILITY are ... to get assistance .. ???

    are there different requirements to getting necessary needed assistance ... ??
    Again, I agree with you - and all what you are saying is a further reinforcement of the problems with Marx's theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    NOW you say the help New Zealand social services providers are race based ... ??? Does it really matter the ETHNIC BACKGROUND of a person requiring help legally affects/changes the amount (or urgency) of the help that citizens will expect to get .. ??
    Specifically Health Care - certain Genetic Groups have Genetic predispositions and higher risks to certain conditions. On that point, a case can be made from the Liberal position, that someone who has something over which they have no control (their Genetic make-up) shouldn't be 'penalized' on certain conditions by having the same standard of care as one who doesn't have a predisposition.

    I agree that in general, Access to Public Services should not be dependent on a particular Group identity. Do you remember the furor that this raised: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/unlice...K6KGEU6ZYRFIE/?

    So it's not like there isn't precedent to say that some social institutions haven't had issues with 'positive discrimination' (which is still discrimination and wrong) - and I will quite merely point you to the body of Academic literature that says that this is a good thing, and then I'll point to the chain of citations with Glee as it leads back to Marx.


    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    Reality ... If Bill Gates ... and ended up in the same hospital as YOU ... YOU would either be in a private hospital in your own private room. Or ... HE would be in a PUBLIC ward ... and members of HIS staff would be unemployed.

    REALITY sunshine ... Get used to it.

    REALITY ... I mentioned THAT above too ... you seem to lack a grasp of the obvious ... Please try to keep up.
    You miss the point. When accessing a Public service, we should both get the same level of Care. I've been to Hospitals, admittedly not with Bill Gates, but definitely with some people who are *quite* well off, they are treated by the Nurses and Doctors mostly the same as the person who is on the Benefit (The mostly being contingent on their Attitude, not their Social Status or any other group)

    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    If the Marxist/Communist Regime was followed to the letter (by your OWN admission at the start of this post it was NOT followed to the letter) ... And so it failed ... in the biggest way possible.

    Government Employee's were not paid on a regular basis ... all Government sector Heads of Departments (junior and senior) were rife for bribery and corruption ... and the common citizen got screwed in any and every way possible.
    See above. The more you try to hammer home this point, the more you are vindicating the point I was making that the Policy was implemented as per Marx, but the Outcome was vastly different.

    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    Even if YOU don't pay someone to clean YOUR car ... How often do YOU clean your OWN car .. ???

    or

    Like ...

    At the pub .. ??

    At home with family .. ??

    At work/Business .. ??

    BUT ... usually the real reason they pay someone to clean their car is ... because they can (sometimes) afford it ... or ... they let other more important financial demands slide ... for reasons of their perceived priority ... rather than actual importance.

    As above ... the 20 minutes away from your family cleaning your car ... you will never get over.
    It matters not, only that I'm free to make the decision as I see fit and as works best for me at the current time.


    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    Those with Copyright and Patent rights ... will probably disagree.

    Do YOU have ANY Copyright or Patent .. ?? If your answer is NO ... your answer is to be expected.

    Your logic and common sense in your comments (to date) would preclude that. I think (just my personal opinion) that YOU coming up with something (ANYTHING) original ... would be beyond you.
    And yet, I have recorded original Music, which by extension gives me automatic copyright in NZ.

    Everything I write here - could be considered Original, so the fact I reply to you with my own words (which you acknowledge are mine) kinda disproves your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    Disagree with WHAT .. is Capitalism really political ... or just a reality in a FREE society .. ??
    I hold the opinion that Capitalism is purely an Economic System, not a Political System. Often those who wish to see it as a Political System do so that they may attack on a Political Basis (generally Devotees of one aforementioned Marx)

    In terms of whether it's a reality or not - My opinion is that the Capitalist free market gives the most amount of people the most amount of freedom, with perhaps the only exception being those who live a purely Anarchist lifestyle/outside of any system of Governance.

    Although you could make the argument that those people are oppressed by Nature/Life in a way that the Capitalist system isn't - but that's a different story.

    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    Rule number one in a "Free market system" ... the Government has to make money in whatever scheme you are running. NO exceptions. Period.
    The ANCAPs would like a word.


    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    Bullshit ...it's more like those WITH money have to provide for those with NO money ... and no intention (or ability) to provide their own income.

    But those with NO ability (or intention) to EARN their own income ... still DEMAND equal funding for THEIR own chosen lifestyle.

    Which are you .. a provider ... or being provided FOR ... ???
    Have to? No sir. They do not. They do so under the fiat of force from the Government (Taxation) and that when people have nothing to loose and everything to gain, it makes for tempting targets.

    As for which am I? I've been a net-tax payer (that is, I pay more in Tax that I consume in services from the Government) since I was in my mid twenties.

    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    SOCIAL Democracy .. ??
    A Social Democracy (not the Socialist usurping of the word) is also known as the Nordic Model - basically it's a system of Government with High Taxation and a high focus on good quality public services.

    It refers not to the make up or assembly of the governing system, but more towards the style of government - hence why it doesn't make your list.


    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    Google Democracy ... here's the result of what I found ...

    a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

    "a system of parliamentary democracy"

    Similar:

    Representative government

    Elective government

    Constitutional government

    Popular government

    Self-government

    Government by the people

    Autonomy

    Republic

    Commonwealth

    Opposite:

    Tyranny

    Dictatorship

    A state governed under a system of democracy.

    Plural noun: democracies


    "a multiparty democracy" .. control of an organization or group by the majority of its members.


    "the intended extension of industrial democracy"

    Which of the above describes the NZ Government system ... ??
    None, because since the Queen is our Head of State, we are a Constitutional Monarchy

    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    NOT found ... was Social Democracy. Why would that be ... ???
    As above, those words describe the architecture of the Governing structures, not the Policy objectives of the Government

    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    Personally ... I think you simply allow your imagination more freedom than it deserves.
    And conversely, I think you should allow yours a little more.
    Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress

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