Hardcore Biker
Aio ki te Aorangi
What's going to replace the materials (oil, aluminium, various other man made compounds etc...) for the "plastics" that form a vehicle on and into the future? At the end of the day, all roads lead to mass unemployment at some point in the potentially near future. Be it a virus, business competing for market share (primarily using automation to replace staff), climate/environment issues, actual scarcity (coz Earth Overshoot), bad weather, big space rock using the Earth as a brake, twitchy bums and the fun n games of the market playaz, nuclear catastrophe (Fukishima still ain't under control after 10 years and all of our tech advancement... and granted, unmanaged nuclear catastrophe isn't really an unemployment thing.) and so on. All roads lead to mass unemployment.Originally Posted by R650R
We have no clue how to use anything we produce outwith making money. Everything is an accident. If we were smart, we'd start with clean air, water and food, but that'd have a bit of an impact on the economy and yet another road that leads to mass unemployment. Figuring out how to use stuff properly might, potentially, maybe, with any luck, and I do mean luck, we might just save our future arses. The tech has a place, just not the place we think it should have.
I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!
Kruger-Dunning Parts n Service
Good points mashman.... and add in all the other consumer oddities that waste raw materials....
The real elephant in the room though is where will all the tax come from.... EV is cheap at the moment as we have massive taxes on petrol.... plus the gst collected on associated servicing oil and parts and go fast goodies etc....
With EVs Bluetooth talkingbti each other and speed limited no fines revenue either...
And what will poverty stricken citizens do, tech won’t trickle down fast enough so they will all be walking??!! At least when they’re in their no reg no WOF people carriers there is a barrier of sorts between them and us in the Bronx.
I’ve always hated the emissions trading scheme but an expert on the wireless today was saying we could buy our way out of this for a mere $175million a year, in fact our current model is the best in the world.
Govt gives you nothing because it creates nothing - Javier Milei
Aio ki te Aorangi
The problem with EV, another elephant in the room that few choose to acknowledge as an issue, is that we think we're going to produce our way out of problems that our growth growth growth jobs jobs jobs upgrade upgrade upgrade production solution has created. Given the way we're planning to use the tech, based on how we currently use it, more of the same = more of the same = same road just different toys massed produced until they can no longer be and the inevitable happens. Short term employment gains sure, but only while the investment is still under development and not implemented.
Tax is always going to be an issue were human beings rely on some form of income in order to be customers and efficiency means less $ moving around. The inevitable place for "tax" to come from will be via helicopter as the poor will be given money that must be spent into the economy. Print as much as ye like (MMT is sufficient) from there and grow grow grow.
ETS, and pretty much all economics for that matter, are the best we can do in terms of sorting shit out and they heavily rely on inefficiency and denial. Our futures are written in business accounts.
Highway Biker
If Wellington City Council is anything like other councils:
- removing street parking,
- reducing speed to 30 and
- making streets narrower for cars to install new lanes for cycles,
then there's Andrew Little on tv admitting that the housing crisis will mean no garages for kiwi builds because that's land that can be used for more housing... the future of cars is going to be for the wealthy only. I think that's why they hate motorbikes sooooo much, because they use as much fuel as a Prius (not to mention EV bikes), don't need the parking space of a car, and can easily share the road width with bicycles. Then there's this:
Forum whore
There will still be a need for trade vehicles - can you see your average plumber or electrician getting all his gear onto a bicycle rack? Or they talk about making the cities more accessible for shoppers - how does all the stock get to the stores, and how does it get to the buyers house? Carry that new lounge suite home on the bus?
Plus I dislike the fact that the consultants and advisers to this project see no trouble with everyone buying electric cars (because on their inflated salaries there's no issue buying a $20 - 30,000 + EV, (assuming that they don't already have one as part of their salary package) while overlooking the minimum wage, two job people who need to get to their jobs in the city from their almost-affordable house in the cheaper suburbs, being hit with a penalty for using an older ICE car to "encourage" them to move up to EV.
it's not a bad thing till you throw a KLR into the mix.
those cheap ass bitches can do anything with ductape.
(PostalDave on ADVrider)
Hardcore Biker
Forum whore
I'm a chef and this will prove to be virtually unworkable in coming decades.
The only alternative to gas is induction and they are horrifically expensive, so are suitable pans. Mega costs to change over, Martin Bosley' was understated if anything.
As for the BBQ. I haven't cooked on gas for years, went low and slow and never looked back. Weird they don't mention that charcoal or wood offsets are in the crosshairs.
Possibly a covert attempt to turn us all vegan.
Over my cold, dead, smoky brisket I say. To arms!
Summit else that makes me ponder about these proposed changes. What happens to all the vehicles, stoves etc that will be junked? Gonna be a lot of planes, trains and ships scrapped as well. Not for awhile, but.
Africa?
I guess the woodburner fire will be taxed to off set emissions.
I'm all for change but it will be a bit painful.
Is it worth investing in power companies?
Manopausal.
Geriatric hoon
Thought this was interesting.
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lith...agrJG6jVRVjH9U
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
Forum whore
Yup, the dirty underbelly of clean energy.
Cobalt is another chemical with dirty and inhumane mining practices.
Frying pan to fire when it comes to extraction.
Manopausal.
Kruger-Dunning Parts n Service
Good to see a variety of great contributions to topic... now if you start joining the dots the bigger picture emerges....
A large part of the population canÂ’t afford the new technology... well letÂ’s just say youÂ’ll be in the workcamps with free accomodation earning your universal basic income to enable your purchasing e wallet to be valid
Vegan yes because then they control and own tbe food supply including seeds. Cattle sheep and chickens make it face too easy for basic peasant to live off the grid and produce excess food to trade with rebels.
All the perfectly good clunker technology well the commutes love destroying stuff so no worries there and will provide work for the camps
Welcome to equality where your equal with the slaves of Africa and China sifting through electronic wreckage for recyclables....
ThereÂ’s 7 billion people in the world, thereÂ’s no way of lifting one end of the distribution curve without making money worthless, however you can stamp on that curve with a big jack boot so everyone excel to few have nothing...
Great article on the mines there, check out the process of getting the stuff for those super magnets also. We will just be trading one pollution for another...
Covid “outbreak” and lockdowns have been stage one to see how the world gets by with less trade, less jobs and just how much tyranny will people withstand.
WhatÂ’s amazing though in this Pandemic environment is people are accepting of concept of moving from individual transport to using more mass public transport.
Perhaps our next mass extinction event will not be an asteroid but a Carrington type event where an EMP burst from sun destroys out totally electric dependant world....
Govt gives you nothing because it creates nothing - Javier Milei
Forum whore
Despite the current, heh, issues, I'm a tad more optimistic about the future.
Manopausal.
Aio ki te Aorangi
UBS. Universal Basic Services. It'll keep the dream alive a while longer.
More likely The Matrix gruel: "a single celled protein combined with synthetic aminos, vitamins, and minerals. Everything the body needs."
In a perverse way better than actual collapse.
People don't have to go anywhere that really requires going any distance. A snapshit of a potential new normal that would see tradies from Welly not working in Kapiti while tradies in Kapiti head to Welly. Lunacy by any other name, but inefficient and better for the economy and therefore, shhhhhhh, don't tell anyone just how stupid that is on a finite planet
Our next mass extinction will be when any 1 of the 450+ active nuclear reactors dotted around the globe becomes completely unmanageable. Them radiators are hard to turn off when they don't want to. They melt robots n everyfink... Once all 450+ have popped, viruses in labs have found their way into the wild, oil slicking everywhere, uncontrolled oil/gas etc... well fires, as well as a few other outcomes man made marvels falling apart coz human beings are suddenly no longer the top of any chain, well, I kinda doubt there's going to be any life left at all to claim a UBI. But again, shhhhhhhh, some people don't handle these things very well.
Aio ki te Aorangi
#metoo... however we are going in the wrong direction somewhat, and have been for some time... but hey, ya just never know what's around the corner until the fascist cunts tell ya
Kruger-Dunning Parts n Service
I’m optimistic too but like to keep people aware of their freedoms being eroded. History shows various regimes progressively take away freedoms, they never increase them except in very rare circumstances like current easings proposed for RMA.
Reactors are not the worry it’s the spent fuel pools that are the problem. Thanks to activists and environmentalists making transporting spent fuel to a better location it is instead stored in most dangerous way possible.
Just like at Fukishima American reactors have spent fuel pools onsite where fuel rods are continuously cooled in a pumped swimming pool type affair. Of course they have back up generators etc but any kind of major disaster disrupting infrastructure services and supplies for more than a few days would create a national if not world destroying catastrophe....
The worst thing about it all though is technology exists to completely exhaust uranium fuels to a safe zero radiation level but a reactor of that type doesn’t make weapons grade by products and you just can’t have nation states having access to a safe endless supply of power....
Govt gives you nothing because it creates nothing - Javier Milei
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