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Thread: Suzuki GT750 EFI Special

  1. #16
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    The TPI YZ 250 ran two 510 injectors. Or perhaps they were 520, NZ EFI has them on the shelf, many sizes infact.
    My E85 fueled 350 Kawasaki runs two 700's as an example.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post


    or just get someone to test them..
    If you are testing injector flow, best to use kerosene, much less flammable than petrol. Also a respirator is a good idea as the injector also creates a fine mist that is pretty hard on the lungs. Been there done this home made testing thing.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    If you are testing injector flow, best to use kerosene, much less flammable than petrol. Also a respirator is a good idea as the injector also creates a fine mist that is pretty hard on the lungs. Been there done this home made testing thing.
    using mineral spirits is on i think the third one as an added bonus it cleans out the varnish.
    When they do the proper testing they use a reference solvent N heptane or something.
    what was the sizes you ended up using TZ i see they do 25cc ones now
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  4. #19
    That's great thank!

    The main thing I am trying to sort out is dead time (open/close). Keihin have a decent UK office so I will ping them and share what I get.

    Any though on the inject end timing spreadsheet? Is there an easier way to do. Is there any way to attach and Excel sheet to the forum?

    New scope probs on the way now so I can confirm the Tunerstudio/Speeduino hack for triple ignition and injector timing

    Cheers

  5. #20
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    My 125 running Av Gas and 20:1 oil uses two 128g/min injectors and one 60g/min. 60g/min for low speed and all three for high speed.

    The Speduino software allows you to select the injection end point in crank degrees.

    The actual amount of fuel injected remains pretty constant for any engine Load with changes in RPM.

    But the start of injection automatically happens earlier and earlier in terms of crank degrees as the RPM increases and the time for a crank revolution decreases.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kettlekev View Post
    TThe main thing I am trying to sort out is dead time (open/close time)
    Easy to get a good handle on the dead time. Arduino is your friend here.

    Run an injector at 100% for a time then pulse it at 50% for twice the amount of time. The difference between the two volumes is the dead time.

  7. #22
    TZ350, did you take a look at the excel?

    I have tried to make it so you input certain things such as port timing, injector characteristics then it spits out end inject degrees based on RPM.

    I understand allows end time input in degrees and then adjust inject time but how does it know the injector characteristics or does it just assume?

    Just trying to get a feel if the excel is a useful tool or not. Problem is the forum wont allow the upload as far as I can see?

  8. #23
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ECOTRONS Fuel Injector technical spec.pdf 
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    I use injectors left over from my old Ecotrons kit. Dead time was 1.6ms.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kettlekev View Post
    I understand allows end time input in degrees and then adjust inject time but how does it know the injector characteristics or does it just assume?
    Sorry, no I have not looked at the spreed sheet.

    Speeduino has a place for entering the injector characteristics. I will see if I can grab some screen shots.

  10. #25
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    You are using a latter version of Speeduino firmware to me but I expect the basics are the same.

    Injector characteristics:-

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    This is 125cc single two stroke, single stage with a 330cc 1.2ms dead time injector. (330cc could be two 165cc/min Physical "B" port injectors fired together)

    Speeduino assumes 12V and high impedance, ie normal injector not peak and hold.

  11. #26
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    Speeduino has a BlueTooth connection option so you can log data to a smart phone and review it later on your laptop. This is handy because you can have the phone in your pocket and data log the bike under real riding conditions.

    You need a Speeduino BlueTooth card and the EFI Analytics ShadowLogger for TuningStudio http://www.tunerstudio.com/index.php/shadowloggerms

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ID:	348241 TunerStudio for tuning the Speeduino EFI firmware and logging the basic results.

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ID:	348239 MegaLogger for logging and analyzing the results from TunerStudio changes to the Speeduino.

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ID:	348240 ShadowLogger for logging on your smart phone.

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Name:	BlueTooth Adapter.jpg 
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ID:	348238 BlueTooth connectivity to a smart phone or laptop.

    I use Bluetooth connectivity to my laptop for tuning with TunerStudio and data logging.

    And a USB cable for any Speeduino firmware upgrades/changes ie if I have fiddled with the Speeduino source code.

  12. #27
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    For anyone that is interested in how the Tuner Studio and Speeduino Software connects together:-

    There are three parts.

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ID:	348242 (1) The Speeduino firmware. Source code written for the Arduino hardware.

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Name:	Speeduino Configuration Settings.png 
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ID:	348243 (2) The Speeduino Configuration file that tells TunerStudio what the TunerStudio screen and IO input/output should look like.

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ID:	348244 (3) TunerStudio paints its screen the way Speeduino Configuration wants it to look and then TunerStudio works in the background and handles the Human Interface with the Speeduino Firmware. This saves fuel injection software developers from having to do all the Human Interface development too. Human Interface is often the biggest part of a software project. Tuner Studio can be adapted by developers for their own EFI projects just by writing a Configuration File.

  13. #28
    Cheers TZ350.

    I've got registered Tunerstudio and Megalog viewer. Will look at the bluetooth link.

    I saw the injector characteristics stuff. So that deals with deadtime and flow.

    Also in the constants/required fuel tab I assume the two numbers in the top are in relation to injector opening times/volume of fuel delivered and are basically calculated from the engine displacement etc. entered in the Required Fuel sub menu, so to define the volume of fuel delivered you dont need to know HP/RPM? Or is this all just a starting point? Why are two numbers calculated?


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    The thing that seems to be missing from all this setup is the injector end times calculator in that you have to manually enter an end time with the graph? That is what I was trying to work out with the spreadsheet. I must be missing something here? Does Tunerstudio help with that as well?

    Sorry, too many questions. Once I get my head around fuel calculations. I will shut up until I have some more mechanics done and some test data.

    I wish I could find a way to attach the excel as I think it might be useful in calculating injection end times.....

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kettlekev View Post
    Also in the constants/required fuel tab I assume the two numbers in the top are in relation to injector opening times/volume of fuel delivered and are basically calculated from the engine displacement etc. entered in the Required Fuel sub menu, so to define the volume of fuel delivered you don't need to know HP/RPM? Or is this all just a starting point? Why are two numbers calculated?
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    I am not sure why there are two numbers there. You are right, they are calculated by the system. I have not paid them much attention other than to know that they are the base fuel for the VE and Alpha-N fuel mapping.

    I also once tried to figure out if they included the dead time or not by comparing them to a log file of injector pulse width. But I have forgotten the answer. It does not matter much.

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    By specifying in the "Engine Constants" that the "Control Algorithm" is "TPS" you change the "VE" table to Alpha-N.

    I think this is how it works.

    The numbers entered in the table multiply the "Required Fuel" i.e. 100 = 100% of the Required Fuel amount. 60 = 60% of Required Fuel amount and 220 = 220% of the Required Fuel Amount.

    Me, I just throw numbers at the map. But if its important to you. You should maybe check this tech detail with people on the Speduino user projects forum. The map numbers can be anywhere between 0 to 256.

    The numbers on your map are determined by trial and error.

    Alpha-N = TPS vis RPM .... VE = (the engine's volumetric efficiency for) MAP vis RPM

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kettlekev View Post
    The thing that seems to be missing from all this setup is the injector end times calculator in that you have to manually enter an end time with the graph?
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    The injector closing point is chosen by moving the (blue) points on the "Injector Timing" graph.

    This is handy because you want to end the injection cycle about BDC to TPC. BDC because that is where the pipe should be sucking its hardest and you want all the injected fuel to be transferred to the cylinder.

    I find BDC (180 deg) works best for me. Flettner with his 350cc Kawasaki single prefers TPC (240 deg).

    Nothing is perfect, at some RPM some fuel will be swept out of the exhaust port and/or some will be blown back out of the inlet. And you have to allow for that in your fueling table. But with care you can minimize it. Do not worry about where the injection cycle starts, the system will calculate that for itself.

    You can also extend the RPM points on the graph by changing the code in the Speeduino Configuration file and re loading it.

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    Your job is to run/ride the bike and change the numbers on the map. A bit like changing carburetor jets but much easier.

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