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Thread: Death toll on the roads is virtually identical to 2019

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post
    A research project we did a few years back found a few things that we already knew anecdotally.

    People think they are better than average drivers. That's because they see everyone else's errors, but not their own.

    It's also not how averages work. If everyone was better than average, the average would be higher, which it isn't.

    People generally think more driver education is needed............for other people. Of course, they don't think they need it themselves.

    Optimism bias leads us to believe that we won't be the one that crashes. We accept that crashes will happen, but it won't be us. And because it won't be us, we don't need to change.

    People want change, but they don't want to change.

    The cost of injuries arising from motorcycle crashes are disproportionate to VKT. No matter whose fault they are, they cost more on average than other vehicle crashes. That's why ACC charges more, and invests in Ride Forever.
    so we have this thing called TV, why isn't that used to teach people how to be better drivers? i went on a defensive driving course forty years ago, we had to through work, there was some interesting small tips that i still pass on these days to people, a short advert wouldn't take much, and get to many. One example is the blinker flashing fast, indicating there's a bulb out, how many people actually know that?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryDorsetCase View Post
    *accident - no such thing.
    Accidental differs from intentional. BUT ... Accidental or not ... accidents come with responsibility. It's factor in the "Accident" process that most people don't get. The premise that a person should be held responsible for their actions is widely held by most. Right up to the time THEY are the one that should be held accountable. THEN ... "It was an accident ... it's not my fault" ...

    The ACC policy of "No fault payments" ... regardless of who was at fault in the accident ... payments are made to injured parties ... is seen as supporting this view.

    Go figure ...
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellywrestler View Post
    so we have this thing called TV, why isn't that used to teach people how to be better drivers? i went on a defensive driving course forty years ago, we had to through work, there was some interesting small tips that i still pass on these days to people, a short advert wouldn't take much, and get to many. One example is the blinker flashing fast, indicating there's a bulb out, how many people actually know that?
    I did my driving lessons (Mk 1 Escort [2 door]) and test in school time (1975) and run by the Automobile Association. It included a Defensive driving course. One tip I remember was ... when waiting to turn right off a main road/street ... keep the front wheels pointing straight ahead until you actually turn, so if you get hit from behind by another vehicle prior to you turning (and that HAS happened to me) ... you wont get pushed out into the traffic flow.

    And I passed first go. The whole process cost me $25.
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete376403 View Post
    WRT the 80 Km/Hr limit thats been imposed here - I was in Nelson a few weeks ago and saw all the "80" signs with tape over them. Asked a local about the reason. He said (and correct me if I am wrong) that there were three fatalities in a short space of time, and the local council had to be seen to be "doing something", even though one of the deaths was a suicide, one was a drunk driver and the third was a head-on from overtaking in the wrong place. Is this correct? Because if so, imposing lower limits isn't going to prevent at least two of these, but may well lead to more of the third due to frustration /impatience. And the only cop I saw between Nelson and Blenheim was not out looking for poor driving but parked off the side of an uphill straight, no doubt with the radar on.
    You can't legislate against the stupid, drunk or suicidal.

    ANY Police vehicle seen parked ANYWHERE will have an IMMEDIATE improvement on driver behavior of vehicles in THAT area. Regardless of the actual speeds of any of the vehicles passing it.

    Most reduce speed when seeing one ... even if they aren't over the limit. YOU probably even do this ...
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    You can't legislate against the stupid, drunk or suicidal.

    ANY Police vehicle seen parked ANYWHERE will have an IMMEDIATE improvement on driver behavior of vehicles in THAT area. Regardless of the actual speeds of any of the vehicles passing it.

    Most reduce speed when seeing one ... even if they aren't over the limit. YOU probably even do this ...
    The Halo effect.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeper View Post
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123...order-closures

    I have suspected this all along. Kiwi drivers are not as competent as they believe they are. In fact, my most recent road trip also supports the notion. In some respects, I don't believe speed is a significant contributor as well. It's the attitude that is the problem, particularly the unwillingness to train existing license holders for improving skills. Cars and bikes are much more powerful now than ever before, yet people got their licences some years ago with no further training required to handle extra power.

    Just my thoughts for the year 2020. May the year 2021 bring much joy and happiness to everyone.
    And there are still dickhead campers leaving rubbish everywhere etc etc. I doubt anything will change, but it would be good to see some irate articles in the media correctly targeting us entitled locals for once.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post
    The Halo effect.
    There were a few countries in various parts of the world ... that trialed full size photo cut-out's images of Police vehicles standing (parked ??) beside the road ... everywhere.

    Traffic calming at it's best ...
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    There were a few countries in various parts of the world ... that trialed full size photo cut-out's images of Police vehicles standing (parked ??) beside the road ... everywhere.

    Traffic calming at it's best ...
    I believe UAE and Turkey still use those tactics even now.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazz View Post
    And there are still dickhead campers leaving rubbish everywhere etc etc. I doubt anything will change, but it would be good to see some irate articles in the media correctly targeting us entitled locals for once.
    Someone needs to call it out.

  10. #40
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    It is interesting in itself that the road toll has not come down despite the almost complete absence of overseas tourists for most of the year, and almost a month at Level 4.

    A proper analysis of the statistics would be interesting but I doubt we will ever see it done.

  11. #41
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    It would be interesting to see if there are any changes in the causes / types of accidents that caused fatalities.

    It would also be interesting to compare this to any equivalent data on injury accidents and non injury accidents. For a change I don't know of anyone who has had a reportable accident in the last 12 months. Usually I know a few.

    My possibly flawed / biased observations:
    Although there is still less traffic in general on the roads, there is a lot more aggression and less patience, stress seems a convenient if not likely reason.

    The is a lot more showboating.

    A fair few people I work with have mentioned that they have never driven outside Auckland before (meaning their only open road experience is on motorways) but they have been making trips all over the north island while burning surplus leave.

    I see a lot more people texting (or otherwise using cellphones) than I used to.

    I see a lot more people openly drink / drug driving.
    My anecdotal experience pre covid-19 was once every month or two I would see people leaving boozy parties in cars... That they then drive slowly, badly or both.
    Since lockdown 2 at least once a fortnight.
    Over Christmas more again.

    I don't even go to parties or the pub so I shudder to think the real number.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    I did my driving lessons (Mk 1 Escort [2 door]) and test in school time (1975) and run by the Automobile Association. It included a Defensive driving course. One tip I remember was ... when waiting to turn right off a main road/street ... keep the front wheels pointing straight ahead until you actually turn, so if you get hit from behind by another vehicle prior to you turning (and that HAS happened to me) ... you wont get pushed out into the traffic flow.

    And I passed first go. The whole process cost me $25.
    A bottle of milk was about 5 cents?

    there has been lots of changes since then.

    but has there been any real change in the causes of crashes?

    sure more cars, better vehicle and road design.
    The attitude hasn’t really changed from those who dont/won’t give a toss.

    a coworker was finally picked up for alcohol etc, still thinks it isn’t his problem
    blames it on the breakup with girlfriend, work etc. he can’t be the cause surely.
    =tosser


    i caught up with a friend who is a nurse and generally sees a lot of accident victims.
    absolutely hates motorcycle accidents.
    detests motorcycles and riders because of the dumb stuff and carnage
    sure there is a large problem of SIDSU.

    make sure you are all visible, there should be a review of the number of lights on a motorcycle and visibility of indicators when extra lights are used.
    be aware of gravel on intersections-quite noticeable in rural areas, or washed out of drives into roadway.

    and my old favourite corner cutting

    make yourself visible.

    READ AND UDESTAND

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by eldog View Post
    ... make yourself visible.
    I guess that's why Black motorcycles and Black based riding gear is so popular. Even most reflective gear doesn't work that well in daylight hours. But the real issue is that simply ... to see things you might run into ... first you actually have to look. The old story ... if it appears to be no threat or danger to yourself ... ignore it and it will go away.

    But ... some still drive into trucks. And claim they didn't see it.

    Go figure.


    But YES ... times have changed. Rider safety gear being worn is the norm. BUT ... Only the Helmet is required by law. The rest of the safety gear is optional. So it's the riders choice how badly injured they want to be ... should they be involved in an accident. I'm not playing the blame game ... regardless of whom was at fault ... an accident will cause you pain. A few too many riders put the faith in their own abilities to stay safe, and don't always wear all (or any) of the other safety gear. To the extent that risks are taken that ignore the simple fact that some other road users aren't that skilled at keeping themselves (and other road users) safe.

    Most of my working life was spent driving somewhere/something on the road ... motorcycles passing me was common (Even when I was on the posted speed limits ). Even in these recent times ... RIDER behavior isn't that great in far too many cases. Following distances in most cases was the biggest issue.

    Yes times HAVE changed ... but in too many cases ... SOME things (too many things) have remained exactly the same.

    Go figure ...
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  14. #44
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    My 2 cents.

    In general the road network is much the same as it was twenty years ago. Ok, you might find some places now have guardrail, some sites have been realigned, some sites have much better surfacing, a shit load of tactile road markings have been installed and millions spent on signage. There might even be some new roads built to a decent standard in places. But that is a fraction of our network and fatal crashes will continue to hover around the same number in the future no matter how many billions are thrown at engineering our way out of it. Limit all vehicles to 30km/h and ban motorcycles and that might get somewhere, otherwise we are just throwing money away.

    Through working in the industry I have come to the conclusion that the focus is wrong. You can’t spend a tiny proportion of the road safety budget on fancy TV adverts and hope that will reach the target audience, and you can’t possibly hope to enforce the way to vision zero if you want to keep the general public on side.

    After attending a pretty confronting fatal crash a couple of months ago I have put together a presentation that was initially aimed at one particular school but now looks like it could go wider. There are a multitude of reasons why people under 20 will continue to kill themselves and their friends. I have figured it is best to get in their heads before they do that because the way we do things at present is clearly not working. Over 30'’s like myself are a lost cause if you ask me. We are already entrenched in our ways and I cannot see any realistic or practical way to change that. The saviour of self-driving cars is still years away.

    Quote Originally Posted by SaferRides View Post
    It is interesting in itself that the road toll has not come down despite the almost complete absence of overseas tourists for most of the year, and almost a month at Level 4.

    A proper analysis of the statistics would be interesting but I doubt we will ever see it done.
    Any proper analysis has always shown overseas drivers were not the issue that people made them out to be. Like on New Years Day when SH6 past Gibbston in Queenstown was closed due to a crash and then a couple of hours later so was the Crown Range. Just doesn't make the headlines like they would if Johnny Foreigner caused it.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Dog View Post
    It would be interesting to see if there are any changes in the causes / types of accidents that caused fatalities.
    Recently I watched an old episode of Motorway Patrol ... it featured a replay of the roadside camera footage of a lane splitting motorcyclist ... bouncing off a car and into the side of the trailer of the truck that was driving beside it. Only the fast reactions of the driver stopped him being killed.

    After all the anger and hype of Wire rope barriers ... I can't recall anybody being killed by riding into them anywhere in NZ. Or a death caused by hitting one.

    Tar seal or Asphalt roads don't seem any softer ... and riding off the road and into a tree (or roadside furniture) will still give the same chance of survival. Regardless of how good your riding gear is. Unless you can suggest a new type of accident ... the "Old" style accidents will still kill and maim motorcyclists.

    Cars will still be driven into the path of motorcycles ... by people with (apparently) good eyesight.

    Stopping motorcyclists from dying on the roads is a big ask. Probably unlikely even. But doing what we can to keep ourselves safe is our best chance of survival. Our own skills and knowledge is what we rely on.

    Good safety gear wont stop an accident or make you bullet proof. But it might help us survive an accident. And reduce the amount of injury. But for this to happen ... you have to wear it.
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

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