Death toll on the roads is virtually identical to 2019

[James Deuce]

Good safety gear wont stop an accident or make you bullet proof. But it might help us survive an accident. And reduce the amount of injury. But for this to happen ... you have to wear it.

It's overrated. Plus 10 years on from my last big one, I'm pretty sure death would have been a better option. Life is fundamentally over. I don't have the physical capability to do anything thanks to the cumulative effect of accident injuries. Working, even from home is a major effort, not helped by the fact that it's a pointless job working for newspeak cretins who can't see the irony of the hole they've fallen into. There's no point getting worked up about anything or making people conform to the "right way". We're all going to die and when you're gone, you're gone. Two generations down the track, no one has a memory of you as person anyway and most of us don't contribute anything worthwhile.

[nerrrd]

...there should be a review of the number of lights on a motorcycle and visibility of indicators when extra lights are used...make yourself visible.

I’ve often wondered if the teeny tiny rear lights on bikes are fit for purpose. Assuming that purpose is to make drivers behind you aware that you’re there, rather than just a styling exercise. They all manage to accommodate a reasonable amount of width for the indicators and the number plate, not sure why a bigger rear light couldn’t be integrated into that somehow.

Having said that I personally find in city driving that road positioning and managing the gaps between myself and other traffic is the most effective way of making myself visible, basically making sure that where I am is where the car drivers expect to find me. Which is limiting when it comes to progressing through slower traffic, but then my enormous sidecases aren’t exactly helpful in that regard either.

But nothing is completely foolproof.

[onearmedbandit]

After all the anger and hype of Wire rope barriers ... I can't recall anybody being killed by riding into them anywhere in NZ. Or a death caused by hitting one.

I'm sure there was a guy here (or a friend of his who was a member) who fucked up a high speed wheelie and was killed by going through a WRB. I can't speak of the facts surrounding his speed etc but from what I gather if he had hit anything solid at that speed it would've been a similar result.

[F5 Dave]

It's overrated. Plus 10 years on from my last big one, I'm pretty sure death would have been a better option. Life is fundamentally over. I don't have the physical capability to do anything thanks to the cumulative effect of accident injuries. Working, even from home is a major effort, not helped by the fact that it's a pointless job working for newspeak cretins who can't see the irony of the hole they've fallen into. There's no point getting worked up about anything or making people conform to the "right way". We're all going to die and when you're gone, you're gone. Two generations down the track, no one has a memory of you as person anyway and most of us don't contribute anything worthwhile.

Ahh, but I've just been riding around the backroads jville to makara up the hill to karori before the rain sets in (actually it still seems to be holding off some more) . I was marveling at the fine conditions of the roads which would be gravel or hopelessly broken without the Taxpayer.

I feel refreshed and full of a decent taste of nature.

Thank you taxpayer. Thank you.

[R650R]

Humans are arrogant in their thought that they can control everything to reach a desired outcome.

As someone stated earlier you have a bell curve of ability with many having an illusion of where they belong on that curve.
The sad fact is a significant portion of the population is on the wrong side of that curve, either due to lack of experience, influencing substances or circumstances (drugs, alcohol, fatigue, stress, health) or theyÂ’re just plain dumb.
Training will only effect a change in a small portion of that group. Largely it will just be another tax of time and money against competent people.
Humans make mistakes, none of us are perfect... eventually that mistake happens at an inconvenient time and place that results in an undesirable outcome.
You can blame this group and that group but the laws of averages are kinda good friends with the laws of physics....

Just look at death and injury in the workplace. YouÂ’ve hired a person and even paid them money to do something because they are the best person available to do that task, theyÂ’re probably well on the good side of the bell curve. If your a decent employer youÂ’ll even give them extra training and the best available gear to do the job safely.
But guess what, those people still make mistakes and have accidents.
And there’s no way society would ever accept the level of scrutiny on their driving that your workplace subjects you to of your abilities, so any extra ‘ driver training’ of the public would be a token exercise at best...

[Big Dog]

I guess that's why Black motorcycles and Black based riding gear is so popular. Even most reflective gear doesn't work that well in daylight hours. But the real issue is that simply ... to see things you might run into ... first you actually have to look. The old story ... if it appears to be no threat or danger to yourself ... ignore it and it will go away.

But ... some still drive into trucks. And claim they didn't see it.

Go figure.


But YES ... times have changed. Rider safety gear being worn is the norm. BUT ... Only the Helmet is required by law. The rest of the safety gear is optional. So it's the riders choice how badly injured they want to be ... should they be involved in an accident. I'm not playing the blame game ... regardless of whom was at fault ... an accident will cause you pain. A few too many riders put the faith in their own abilities to stay safe, and don't always wear all (or any) of the other safety gear. To the extent that risks are taken that ignore the simple fact that some other road users aren't that skilled at keeping themselves (and other road users) safe.

Most of my working life was spent driving somewhere/something on the road ... motorcycles passing me was common (Even when I was on the posted speed limits ). Even in these recent times ... RIDER behavior isn't that great in far too many cases. Following distances in most cases was the biggest issue.

Yes times HAVE changed ... but in too many cases ... SOME things (too many things) have remained exactly the same.

Go figure ...

Re wire ropes, I know of 2.
One a member here.
Over a 30 year period that is statistically insignificant to everyone except their friends and families.

I believe we have reached a stasis of sorts.
If the road toll comes down people take bigger risks, when it goes up people show more caution.


Still, half of the suicide rate on NZ though eh?
But how much more do we spend going around in the same circles that have largely been unchanged since there 90s?

If we spent some of it on mental health would we see less risk taking from people who haven't made the decision to suicide but do indulge in risky behavior due to a lack of self worth / preservation?

I get it, let up on the campaigns and the road toll goes up and people are out of work, but we have reached a point where increased investment will not necessarily mean better results.

It's a tough one and I wouldn't want to be the one making the calls, but I still want to see the real data before making any judgements on the causes.
Sure I have opinions but they are just that until we have corroborating data.


Another relatively new phenomenon, is people working full time jobs, then recreating in a full time way, then trimming their sleep to keep up to date on media / social media.
But that's okay because that all contributes to the economy. Even though they drive like zombies.

[jellywrestler]

I'm sure there was a guy here (or a friend of his who was a member) who fucked up a high speed wheelie and was killed by going through a WRB. I can't speak of the facts surrounding his speed etc but from what I gather if he had hit anything solid at that speed it would've been a similar result.

yip, and there's a been a few killed by seatbealts but the percentage of people saved by them is a little different, same with wire rope barriers

[Berries]

I believe we have reached a stasis of sorts.
If the road toll comes down people take bigger risks, when it goes up people show more caution.

Where did you hear that? The number of people dead on the road has no bearing on how I ride or drive.

I believe there is a balance between allowing mobility in big lumps of metal at speeds too high for the human body to survive and there being a certain number of mistakes that lead to crashes that lead to loss of life. I think we are about at that balance point. "Any number is too many" is quite right, but that completely ignores a number of realities related to moving at anything faster than a good running pace.

[Big Dog]

Where did you hear that? The number of people dead on the road has no bearing on how I ride or drive.

I believe there is a balance between allowing mobility in big lumps of metal at speeds too high for the human body to survive and there being a certain number of mistakes that lead to crashes that lead to loss of life. I think we are about at that balance point. "Any number is too many" is quite right, but that completely ignores a number of realities related to moving at anything faster than a good running pace.

I didn't hear it anywhere.
Just my own opinion.
[Opinion]
People who are more aware of risks, in my experience, take steps to mitigate them.

People unaware of risks or who assume the risks don't apply to them take bigger risks.

The sort of people who would actively participate in this thread are entirely unlikely to be influenced by marketing because our awareness is already high.
However we still only make up a statistically insignificant portion of the data set.
[/Opinion]

[Bonez]

I didn't hear it anywhere.
Just my own opinion.
[Opinion]
People who are more aware of risks, in my experience, take steps to mitigate them.

People unaware of risks or who assume the risks don't apply to them take bigger risks.

The sort of people who would actively participate in this thread are entirely unlikely to be influenced by marketing because our awareness is already high.
However we still only make up a statistically insignificant portion of the data set.
[/Opinion]

This is exactly why a I fitted a small 3 LED array below the head light on my '76 Honda CB550F. It's amaxing what a difference it has made at lot of at informing other motorist I'm on their stretch of road. I also wears a dayglow yellow vest when I ride these days.

[FJRider]

I'm sure there was a guy here (or a friend of his who was a member) who fucked up a high speed wheelie and was killed by going through a WRB. I can't speak of the facts surrounding his speed etc but from what I gather if he had hit anything solid at that speed it would've been a similar result.

I stand corrected.

I've been riding motorcycles on the road since I got my license. A few off's over the years. Nothing that required more than a few days in Hospital with a bruised ego and broken collarbone. I was lucky. I toured Malaysia in the early 80's ... my safety gear was a pair of knock-off Levi's and T-shirt ... and an open face Helmet. Army boots to complete the ensemble. A few off's there too. All I rode away from. Others on my two year tour to Singapore (with 1RNZIR) were not so lucky. One friend was killed in an overtaking gone wrong. Other riders here in NZ I knew have also died on our roads. They too became a statistic.

I have never claimed to be any sort of expert rider ... quite the opposite. I was lucky. If I pushed my own riding boundaries ... which I did ... and got it wrong ... which I did at times ... The person I held responsible was myself. I knew I was risking my life. The warning voices sounding in my own head ... sometimes ignored. The line between expert and lucky is hard to fathom ... let alone see. Except in hindsight. I was always happy riding motorcycles. Never any regrets. There were times that I'd not like to see repeated. Actions have reactions ... and I have lived through those reactions. Those reading this post did too. And long may it last for all of us.

The reasons we ride are our own. By our own choice we may live or die. We know the rules ... and the main rule we all understand is that we may die doing it. We all knew that from the beginning ... so none of can say "I didn't know".

I'm coming up to my 63rd birthday soon ... and have no plans to give up riding. It may not be on my FJ1200 ... as I'm not as fit or strong as I was. (I wasn't that strong then either) I'll be selling or trading it on something a little smaller. And suitable for the back roads and back country areas. Well ... that's the plan.

Most of the issues in this thread are about things pretty much out of our control on a nationwide basis ... but on a personal level ... We have choices.
The choices you make and options you have ... can lead you all to a long and happy life. Life however doesn't always work out that way. Motorcycling is dangerous. We ALL know that. We have to trust that the millions of people driving and riding on the same roads WE are ... will be doing their best to keep US alive.

Yeah Right.


Stay safe out there folk's ... and be lucky.

[Swoop]

We all know and appreciate the fact that kiwi drivers are shit, but luckily this will remain constant for the forseeable future so will ensure a sense of predictability.
It does appear to be declining in regards to keeping a vehicle on the appropriate side of the white line though...

I fully supprt HDC's bullet in the back of the head programme. This would also work with red light runners, who would recieve a 12g solid slug through their windscreen as a warning shot (which is actually an aimed shot at the driver). Anyone taking a car to get a replacement windshield due to a 12g hole in it would receive...

My view is that anyone with children in a vehicle should have to use a specific type of vehicle where the driver sits in a separate compartment and the children are loose in the rest of the vehicle.

Cars have a boot. Put the kids in there. DING! next problem to solve?

[HenryDorsetCase]

We all know and appreciate the fact that kiwi drivers are shit, but luckily this will remain constant for the forseeable future so will ensure a sense of predictability.
It does appear to be declining in regards to keeping a vehicle on the appropriate side of the white line though...

I fully supprt HDC's bullet in the back of the head programme. This would also work with red light runners, who would recieve a 12g solid slug through their windscreen as a warning shot (which is actually an aimed shot at the driver). Anyone taking a car to get a replacement windshield due to a 12g hole in it would receive...


Cars have a boot. Put the kids in there. DING! next problem to solve?

Sadly, most new vehicles are silly utes or SUV's these days. Sedan cars are not as popular as they were.

Technology will help us here with the red light runners. We can adapt my favourite part of the Aliens movies - sentry guns. When a light goes red, a sensor is fired that arms the guns aimed at the lanes (from across the road and up high say- next to those pointless red light cameras). Once the system is armed anything crossing the line (like a drag racing start line laser or something) gets the metal rain. It could be implemented everywhere there is a red light, it would be cheap, and it would absolutely, positively mean that people took them seriously. Because they sure as shit don't now. Since the worst offenders I have seen are courier vans, and other tradie battlers, judicious placement of the sentry gun would ensure the driver paid the price but not the payload - because I want my fucking parcel, OK?

[Berries]

Sadly, most new vehicles are silly utes or SUV's these days. Sedan cars are not as popular as they were.

Technology will help us here with the red light runners. We can adapt my favourite part of the Aliens movies - sentry guns. When a light goes red, a sensor is fired that arms the guns aimed at the lanes (from across the road and up high say- next to those pointless red light cameras). Once the system is armed anything crossing the line (like a drag racing start line laser or something) gets the metal rain. It could be implemented everywhere there is a red light, it would be cheap, and it would absolutely, positively mean that people took them seriously. Because they sure as shit don't now. Since the worst offenders I have seen are courier vans, and other tradie battlers, judicious placement of the sentry gun would ensure the driver paid the price but not the payload - because I want my fucking parcel, OK?

You’ve got my vote comrade.

[pritch]

You’ve got my vote comrade.

I'll second that. Love that "metal rain".

But seriously...

The two most recent YouTube clips by Noraly, she of 'ItchyBoots' fame, depict the methods used in Holland to teach riding skills to motorcycle police. Potentially of interest to anyone interested in rider skills training?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMp-oEyKh1s