Biden

[sugilite:Me]

How are the other 97% stopped?


And would it be by People, armed with Guns?

Sometimes.

Maybe the question should be why do so many active /mass shootings begin?
This graph below may give a hint.

[TheDemonLord]

Sometimes.

Maybe the question should be why do so many active /mass shootings begin?
This graph below may give a hint.

Correlation =/= Causation - otherwise Fire trucks cause House fires.

So how do you explain the likes of Norway then? Or NZ if it was included in that list?

The devil is in the detail - if you exclude all of the Criminal shootings* (which make up the vast majority of Firearm Murders in the US) it looks a little bit different. As others have alluded to - most of these aren't happening in Republican 2A safe havens, they are happening in States that have some of the strictest Firearm Laws.

*Namely shootings by people who either don't have a Firearm licence, a CCP or otherwise would not be eligible to own a Firearm in the State that they are in.

The answer is being phrased as 'More guns means more shootings', but then you have to account for countries that have a long history of high rates of Firearm Ownership (The Nordic countries, NZ, Switzerland etc.), Civilian Marksmanship, high rates of Semi-Auto Rifle ownership (and yes, I'm still including NZ in that list because 60,000 out of an absolute minimum of 180,000 is hilarious) and yet extremely low rates of Firearm crime.

And whilst I'm mentioning NZ - Firearm crime went up after Jacinda banned all those Eeeeeevil Semi-Autos, so how does that factor into your conclusion?

Tieing this all back - the answer is more accurately:

"The higher that rate of Firearm Possession, by Criminals, the more Firearm Murders will be committed. Having a balanced system, that has the approval and consent of the law-abiding firearm owners may lead to higher rates of Firearm ownership, but lower rates of Firearm crime"

[sugilite:Me]

Correlation =/= Causation - otherwise Fire trucks cause House fires.

So how do you explain the likes of Norway then? Or NZ if it was included in that list?

The devil is in the detail - if you exclude all of the Criminal shootings* (which make up the vast majority of Firearm Murders in the US) it looks a little bit different. As others have alluded to - most of these aren't happening in Republican 2A safe havens, they are happening in States that have some of the strictest Firearm Laws.

*Namely shootings by people who either don't have a Firearm licence, a CCP or otherwise would not be eligible to own a Firearm in the State that they are in.

The answer is being phrased as 'More guns means more shootings', but then you have to account for countries that have a long history of high rates of Firearm Ownership (The Nordic countries, NZ, Switzerland etc.), Civilian Marksmanship, high rates of Semi-Auto Rifle ownership (and yes, I'm still including NZ in that list because 60,000 out of an absolute minimum of 180,000 is hilarious) and yet extremely low rates of Firearm crime.

And whilst I'm mentioning NZ - Firearm crime went up after Jacinda banned all those Eeeeeevil Semi-Autos, so how does that factor into your conclusion?

Tieing this all back - the answer is more accurately:

"The higher that rate of Firearm Possession, by Criminals, the more Firearm Murders will be committed. Having a balanced system, that has the approval and consent of the law-abiding firearm owners may lead to higher rates of Firearm ownership, but lower rates of Firearm crime"

So the USA should continue to do nothing. It is working so well - yes? I guess the advantage of sticking their heads in the sand is it is only their arse that gets shot huh.

[TheDemonLord]

So the USA should continue to do nothing. It is working so well - yes? I guess the advantage of sticking their heads in the sand is it is only their arse that gets shot huh.

Can you point to where I said that?

Come now, you are very quick to accuse me when you think I've done it.

The oversimplification of:
"More Guns means More murders, therefore less guns means less murders" as a justification for taking peoples personal property at (ironically) Gun point is simply not true.

The solution first and foremost is to deal with the group of people that in NZ account for 97% of Firearm crime. That would be Criminals.

Once that has been sorted, then perhaps we can look at how we issue licences to ensure that people who shouldn't own a Firearm aren't able to.

(and then we need to make sure the people who look after the licences actually follow their own Damn Rules....)

[sugilite:Me]

Can you point to where I said that?

Come now, you are very quick to accuse me when you think I've done it.

The oversimplification of:
"More Guns means More murders, therefore less guns means less murders" as a justification for taking peoples personal property at (ironically) Gun point is simply not true.

The solution first and foremost is to deal with the group of people that in NZ account for 97% of Firearm crime. That would be Criminals.

Once that has been sorted, then perhaps we can look at how we issue licences to ensure that people who shouldn't own a Firearm aren't able to.

(and then we need to make sure the people who look after the licences actually follow their own Damn Rules....)

Nope, I'm not falling for that banana skin.
When you state the devil is in the details, what that actually means is the devil is in your details - ones painstakingly picked out (often out of context) to support your position. Like when Sidney Powell was initially clearly in Trumps legal team. Despite it being indisputable, you still disputed it. So i I just don't get into your "devils details" anymore - to preserve my own sanity old bean.

I do not consider NZ has any out of control gun problems. Sound reasoned actions have been undertaken in my opinion. I know you do not feel the same.
On the other hand the USA has a massive problem.
The charts do show, more guns = more murders, no matter which way you choose to spin it.

[pritch]

How are the other 97% stopped?
And would it be by People, armed with Guns?

Who said they were stopped?

I'm reminded of the cross examination that took place in an American court. It went something like this:

Lawyer to cop. "How long have you been a Police officer?"
"Fifteen years."
"You must have attended many vilolent incidents?"
"Yes, too may to count."
"In how many of those incidents did you arrive in time to prevent the violence?"

Of course that took place following one of the 3% incidents.

The police don't always stop the 97%, they come along later and investigate the crime. Sometimes they prosecute.

[TheDemonLord]

Nope, I'm not falling for that banana skin.
When you state the devil is in the details, what that actually means is the devil is in your details - ones painstakingly picked out (often out of context) to support your position. Like when Sidney Powell was initially clearly in Trumps legal team. Despite it being indisputable, you still disputed it. So i I just don't get into your "devils details" anymore - to preserve my own sanity old bean.

I do not consider NZ has any out of control gun problems. Sound reasoned actions have been undertaken in my opinion. I know you do not feel the same.
On the other hand the USA has a massive problem.
The charts do show, more guns = more murders, no matter which way you choose to spin it.

If you pick one data point (the US), then sure.

But in order to pick that, you have to disregard the myriad of countries that have high ownership rates and low crime. That is the detail you need to account for. There's no out-of-context points here.

The Charts also show that More Fire Engines = More Fires, therefore we should Ban Fire Engines as they *clearly* cause fires.

[TheDemonLord]

Who said they were stopped?

I'm reminded of the cross examination that took place in an American court. It went something like this:

Lawyer to cop. "How long have you been a Police officer?"
"Fifteen years."
"You must have attended many vilolent incidents?"
"Yes, too may to count."
"In how many of those incidents did you arrive in time to prevent the violence?"

Of course that took place following one of the 3% incidents.

The police don't always stop the 97%, they come along later and investigate the crime. Sometimes they prosecute.

A good point, but in the context of Mass Shooters - they keep going until they are cornered by other people with Guns and typically either are shot and killed or more often, kill themselves rather than be taken alive.

Eitherway - it's good people with Guns that stop bad people with Guns.

[sugilite:Me]

If you pick one data point (the US), then sure.

But in order to pick that, you have to disregard the myriad of countries that have high ownership rates and low crime. That is the detail you need to account for. There's no out-of-context points here.

The Charts also show that More Fire Engines = More Fires, therefore we should Ban Fire Engines as they *clearly* cause fires.

Where are these charts showing more fire engines cause more fires please?

[TheDemonLord]

Where are these charts showing more fire engines cause more fires please?

"The relationship model of property loss caused by fire with the type of shopping mall and total number of fire engines needed to be dispatched"

Clearly, More Fire Engines means more Property damage, therefore we need to Ban Fire engines to prevent damage by Fire.

This is basic Stats 101, that a correlation is not a Causation - and I'm parodying your argument - by choosing a different set of metrics to show why it's wrong.

And if we look at the US - specifically, let's say tomorrow Magic Joe Biden snaps his fingers and all lawfully owned Firearms are removed from private individuals.

The Firearm Murder figures wouldn't change a whole lot. Since the overwhelming majority are caused by inner city Gang Violence. People who can't legally obtain a Firearm. Same to in NZ - 97% of all firearm crime is done by Criminals who cannot and do not hold a Firearm license.

In states with high rates of CCP or Open Carry laws, we know, from the CDC (That notorious Right-Wing source) that Armed Citizens do stop a large number of Crimes from happening regularly.

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ion-plug-gaps/

Biden:

"I'm going to build a Wall, it's gonna be a Beautiful Wall"




*deep breath*

[pritch]

You may be aware that the Arizona State Republican politicians have engaged a private firm to conduct an audit of the votes in the 2020 election. The company, Cyber Ninjas, is headed by a Q Anon conspiracy theorist with no qualifications or experience in electoral work. Consequently there have been some concerns.

It was noticed that the staff conducting the “audit” were using blue pens. It had to be pointed out that the voting machines read blue or black ink. Electoral staff use pens with red or green ink which is ignored by the machines. The head of Cyber Ninjas said that was news to him.

Only one TV company is permitted on site: OAN.

The “observers” have all signed non disclosure agreements. If they do observe anything they can’t tell anyone.

One of the guys working on the floor was involved in the Jan 6th coup attempt. He is a former police officer who was fired from the police and is featured on a list of corrupt Arizona police officers. Oh, and he was a candidate in the last election.

Trump has been very excited by these proceedings and reportedly asks for progress reports several times a day. Of particular interest was the use of ultra violet light.

It seems that a particular focus of the “audit” is a search for bamboo. There is a theory that the Chinese (or other 'South East Asians') inserted 40,000 votes for Biden into the system. Obviously votes from China will contain bamboo. Or something.

If that seems unhinged to you, you’re OK, it is.

The audit is proceeding very slowly. Unfortunately the venue that is being used has prior bookings which will necessitate the audit to pack up and movie out, perhaps to move back after the other events are complete. Or not.

The latest development is that the Arizona House has received a letter from the US Dept of Justice pointing out that the audit is illegal on a number of grounds and must cease. Ballots are only supposed to be handled by electoral officials, never by a private company. Cyber Ninjas were apparently planning on interviewing individual voters about their ballot. That comes under the heading of voter intimidation and that too is illegal.

The crazy is strong in Arizona.

[R650R]

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ion-plug-gaps/

Biden:

"I'm going to build a Wall, it's gonna be a Beautiful Wall"




*deep breath*

Can the Trump haters please remind me how "little" amount of the wall Trump completed ??????
Cause you all spammed the thread so much is hard to search that term.....
Anyway in the above article your favourite anti trump news paper the Washington post says he built 460 miles 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[pete376403]

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ion-plug-gaps/

Biden:

"I'm going to build a Wall, it's gonna be a Beautiful Wall"l:

"The discretionary request includes no additional funding for border wall construction and proposes the cancellation of prior-year balances that are unobligated at the end of 2021." It's a long read so I've saved you the effort of finding it - bottom of page 15 of the enclosure, under Department of Homeland Security heading.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-conten...ry-Request.pdf

[pete376403]

Can the Trump haters please remind me how "little" amount of the wall Trump completed ??????
Cause you all spammed the thread so much is hard to search that term.....
Anyway in the above article your favourite anti trump news paper the Washington post says he built 460 miles 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Can you not tell the difference between Washington Post and Washington NEWS?