Jacinda

[F5 Dave]

It really is like they are trying to lose.

Are they trying?

Bill was a bit of a wet sock after Key, but he had a chance as a competent politician. In fact he would have won 2017 had it not been for sly Whinny.

But the party faithful got spooked and looked around for a young face, who Paul Ego hilariously quiped on 7 days looked like he was the manager at a Jean's West branch.

[TheDemonLord]

It really is like they are trying to lose.

Are they trying?

Bill was a bit of a wet sock after Key, but he had a chance as a competent politician. In fact he would have won 2017 had it not been for sly Whinny.

But the party faithful got spooked and looked around for a young face, who Paul Ego hilariously quiped on 7 days looked like he was the manager at a Jean's West branch.

I've always said that NZ is about 5-10 years behind the rest of the world.

I see in National currently what we saw in the Tories before Boris and the Republicans before Trump - People that are 'Conservatives' but don't actually know what that really means. They think that Conservatism is just low taxes and efficient Government, but that is merely a function of good Conservative governance - which is the idea that the individual knows best how to live their life.

[nerrrd]

I've always said that NZ is about 5-10 years behind the rest of the world.

I see in National currently what we saw in the Tories before Boris and the Republicans before Trump - People that are 'Conservatives' but don't actually know what that really means. They think that Conservatism is just low taxes and efficient Government, but that is merely a function of good Conservative governance - which is the idea that the individual knows best how to live their life.

Unless you're poor, a minority or pregnant, of course.

[husaberg]

It really is like they are trying to lose.

Are they trying?

Bill was a bit of a wet sock after Key, but he had a chance as a competent politician. In fact he would have won 2017 had it not been for sly Whinny.

But the party faithful got spooked and looked around for a young face, who Paul Ego hilariously quiped on 7 days looked like he was the manager at a Jean's West branch.

Poor old Bill
a two-time loser he was i am sure hes a nice dude but dull as ditchwater.
What cost him an election was how he got caught lying about the ex tobacco dipshit Todd Barclay.


The clandestine taping of an employee by Government MP Todd Barclay has resulted in a secret payment from former Prime Minister John KeyÂ’s leaderÂ’s budget to make the issue go away.
Current Prime Minister Bill English knew about the payment and the bugging — and National Party board members and the Parliamentary Service also knew about the secret recordings.
BarclayÂ’s former electorate agent Glenys Dickson was paid the hush money after learning of the dictaphone left running in the Gore office and then engaging an employment lawyer.
- English knew Dickson had been recorded by Barclay and spoke to her about it, despite telling media he had not been directly involved in any discussions.
- Then-Prime Minister John Key’s parliamentary budget was used to pay part of a confidential settlement to Dickson, in an attempt to avoid “potential legal action”.
- Dickson and others in the electorate have been threatened and intimidated by others since falling out with Barclay.
Police investigating the case received a range of evidence, including a text exchange from English to electorate chair Stuart Davie which said Barclay had recorded Dickson.
Despite this, police dropped the case after a 10-month investigation and Barclay was reselected as the partyÂ’s candidate for the electorate late last year.
Todd Barclay said he did tell the Prime Minister Bill English he made secret recordings of a staff member.
English has always publicly maintained he knew next to nothing about it, previously describing his role as a "bystander".
But why did he send more than 450 text messages to Dickson in the year before she quit?
Some of them were late at night, even at 1:25am. There were 22 messages the day before she quit, and 25 the week after - all this from a "bystander".
English says he sometimes sends people texts as late as 1:00am, "because sometimes that's when I can get a hold of them".
Asked why he sent so many texts to Dickson, he said: "All the commentary that can be made on that's been made I think."
When asked why he sent 25 texts in the week after she quit, he said: "This has all been covered, and it's subject to another police investigation.
"I don't count up who's texted what where. I just communicate effectively to achieve what I want to achieve."
That was despite Mr English insisting he knew little about the saga. Mr English's story initially went from claiming he couldn't recall details to saying he had made a police statement.
A portion of the $2 million leader's budget was used to pay out Ms Dickson following the dispute.

Mr Barclay initially denied the recordings existed but then stepped down after Mr English's police statement was released. In the statement, Mr English says Mr Barclay had told him about the recordings.
• English knew for months about the hush-money paid from the leader’s budget.

• English knew for months that Todd Barclay was lying.

• English covered up Barclay’s lies and his (possibly illegal certainly unethical and bullying) behaviour – screwing his old electorate and former workers in the process.

• English supported Barclay’s re-nomination (now the subject of a separate crisis).

• English lied to the media

[F5 Dave]

Meh, speedbump. Most voters forget shit almost straight away. He did win the election. At the start. Just more apathy as he wasn't John Key so the voters just went, ahh, it'll be alright il vote next time. Bill still had most votes. But he couldn't counter Whinnie riding high.

Next time it was a rort.

[husaberg]

Meh, speedbump. Most voters forget shit almost straight away. He did win the election. At the start. Just more apathy as he wasn't John Key so the voters just went, ahh, it'll be alright il vote next time. Bill still had most votes. But he couldn't counter Whinnie riding high.

Next time it was a rort.

i agree with a heck of a lot of that.
Bill lost the 2002 election losing 13 % of the previous support national had. Its seems he just has no charisma at all.

in 2017 he was handed an unlosable majority and then still could muster enough votes so he couldn't form a government leaving labour to form a government.

Winny had done the same trick to labour years before with Boulger only to be screwed over when half his party defected over to national when they were offered a sweeter deal.
English effectively ruled out working with Winny before the election then ran hard against him in Northland effectively sealing his fate of being Nigel no mates post-election.

The big question is who will roll Crusher and when?
It a bit call to call for National to say look we have this dude who has no political experience (luxton,) as
As they said we are the best team to run the country but in truth, then admit okay only someone new is actually the best we really have.
Yet no one likes crusher or Bridges or anyone else they have either.

I have a theory that left leaning voters end to get behind leaders whereas right wing voters tend to support their chosen party with blind faith no matter who leads it.

But if they play the luxton card and don't win they have no cards left. other than trying to play the old donkey joker.

looking up wikipedia National has had 6 leaders in 6 years (Nikki Kaye 1 day)

From DEC 16
JOHN kEY
Bill English
Simon Bridges
Todd Muller
Nikki Kaye
Judith Collins

Since 97 they have had 10 leaders
Thats 2.4 years each leader

[F5 Dave]

Bit like labour 30 years ago playing musical chairs.

[pritch]

Double Dipton might have dented Bill's almost insignificant charisma. That, in a word, was fraud.

[merv]

Double Dipton might have dented Bill's almost insignificant charisma. That, in a word, was fraud.

Besides him having no charisma, that definitely put me right off him that double Dipton trick.

[husaberg]

Bit like labour 30 years ago playing musical chairs.

I would hazard a guess to say nats current is far far worse


David Lange
3 February 1983-8 August 1989. 6 years, 6 months and 5 days

Geoffrey Palmer
8 August 1989-4 September 1990. 1 year and 27 days

Mike Moore,
4 September 1990-1 December 1993 3 years, 2 months and 27 days
so that was 3 in four years. shit but amatuer compared to the nats.

That said they had that period 2011 to 2014 with shearer, little, Cunniffe, parker 4 in years also, but the nats had 3 in 3 months.
Shit I can't even remember Parker. Shearer was suposed to have a motorbike (likely a harley) the rest were pretty uninspiring.
Labours had 5 leader die while leader. Oddly nationals had zero. imagine what R650R would make of that maths..............

Double Dipton might have dented Bill's almost insignificant charisma. That, in a word, was fraud.

Besides him having no charisma, that definitely put me right off him that double Dipton trick.

i had forgot about that one
he was one of many in on that. On both sides.
DonKeys was worse than most as he claimed a house he had never even lived in to be his primary residence.

One News poll has found 62 per cent believe the accommodation question has damaged Mr English's credibility as finance minister. Fifty-four per cent say he has not acted with integrity.

Looks like their new star is doing it now

Taxpayers are paying money towards two of the seven properties in the portfolio of National MP Christopher Luxon, who is among more than a dozen MPs that use Parliamentary accommodation allowances to effectively rent property from themselves.
Luxon has also bought an office in his Botany electorate which he leases back to Parliament for use as his electorate office.That is far less common. Former MP Amy Adams owned her own electorate office, as did former Prime Minister John Key.
Current National MP Nick Smith rents his office to himself through a company he owns.
With acomidationLuxon is in good company. His current and former party leaders Judith Collins and Simon Bridges both claim the allowance. As of the most recent register of MPs' property holdings, both own Wellington accommodation.Andrew Bayly, Jacqui Dean, Barbara Kuriger, Melissa Lee, Ian McKelvie, Mark Mitchell, Simon OÂ’Connor, Stuart Smith, Louise Upston and Michael Woodhouse also claim the allowance whilst owning Wellington accommodation.

[jasonu]

I've always said that NZ is about 5-10 years behind the rest of the world.

I see in National currently what we saw in the Tories before Boris and the Republicans before Trump - People that are 'Conservatives' but don't actually know what that really means. They think that Conservatism is just low taxes and efficient Government, but that is merely a function of good Conservative governance - which is the idea that the individual knows best how to live their life.

Remember this post. It is right on the money. Sooner or later NZ will vote in a far less than ideal party and leader when they finally see the tooth fairy and Labour for the fuck up they really are. Thats what happened here with Trump. Many, myself included cast votes for him as a vote against Hillary. if you remember the lead up to the election every time Trump opened his mouth it was as if he was trying to sink himself but the buggar still won. Says shitloads about the opposition.

[husaberg]

Remember this post. It is right on the money. Sooner or later NZ will vote in a far less than ideal party and leader when they finally see the tooth fairy and Labour for the fuck up they really are. Thats what happened here with Trump.

Using this logic. A much better example is actually how the USA voted Trump out after one term of woeful leadership, mismanagement, two impeachments numerous scandals, financial and economic mismanagement.
All the while whilst massively increasing US debt. This was from the US, whose voters are generally rated as not being particularly savvy. He had a 58% disapproval rating, only Jimmy Craters and Richard Nixons were higher.
Yet the current government, here in NZ, by contrast, is extremely popular, whilst the opposition has never been less popular. So logically your example is rather flawed.
.

if you remember the lead up to the election every time Trump opened his mouth it was as if he was trying to sink himself but the buggar still won. Says shitloads about the opposition.

Really? To most people Trump's success, shows more about the cult of celebrity plus how money from corporate sponsors, manipulation of the media, plus support from the Koch brother and gun lobby support can buy you an election.
This resulted in a dude winning despite getting fewer votes. A guy, who runs his mouth better than he could run a country.


Donald Trump will be remembered as the first president to be impeached twice. He fed the myth that the election was stolen.
summoned his supporters to Washington to protest the certification of the Electoral College vote.
He told them that only through strength could they take back their country.
Then stood by as they stormed the US Capitol and interfered in the operation of constitutional government.

A man who at a press conference he had with Vladimir Putin in 2018 in Helsinki, he took Putin's side over US intelligence in regard to Russian interference in the election.
then later tried to say he was misquoted. A person who was openly mocked buy other leaders and laughed at by the UN

4 million US jobs Lost
635,000 Covid Deaths
30,000 plus lies told
315 days spend Golfing
91% senior advisor staff turnover
26 women accused him of Sexual misonduct
5 miles of a border wall
5 dead in a riot he incited
2 time popular vote loser
Only President to be impeached twice

[pete376403]

. if you remember the lead up to the election every time Trump opened his mouth it was as if he was trying to sink himself but the buggar still won. Says shitloads about the opposition.

I think it says more about the American voting system, where the person with a three million vote majority still lost.

[F5 Dave]

Reread his first sentence.

[husaberg]

Reread his first sentence.

Remember this post.