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Thread: Braking - My Take

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete376403 View Post
    This story - https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/124...horrific-crash

    Great that he survived but look at the pictures - first the skid mark and then the one of the bike. High handlebars and forward foot controls. My guess is he didn't touch the front brake, locked up the rear, high sided into the bank and possibly the bike landed on top.

    It's not (from the picture) a very sharp corner so should have had visibility of the sheep early enough.

    However, he lived and thats a win.
    Not going to judge, seems wandering stock was the issue.

    But you can't make a skid mark like that with a front wheel. That's a locked rear brake. A little practice and he might have done better.

  2. #32
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    ...it's all irrelevant to me...I ride a sportster on the road, less and less these days and I'm starting to ride slower, more and more...suits the sportys brakes which work well under 20kph...

    ...the only time I try and go fast these days is on a dirt oval and the only reason we have a rear brake is so that you don't knock the lady over, who is wandering through the pits with a hotdog in her mouth...or that you don't hit your trailer when you get to your pit...

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    WOn the front first to transfer the weight then when you start applying the rear it is on a lighter rear end already, rather than apply to a rear that gets weight transferred off it and locks, distracting the rider.

    At the hoosiwhatsi motorcycle roadshow thingy held at southwoods etc they did some demonstrations. They were suggesting rear first to settle the bike then front. That really didn't make any sense to me. Firstly for above reason. Then why would you want to delay application of your most effective brake for longer than the reaction time where you are coasting? It seems like squandering metres.
    The theory doesn't quite work in my mind sorry. Being on the gas has the weight rear biased. Grabbing the front first will means little weight load on when you first grab it.....snagging the rear brake slightly before the front will get the weight transfer moving, but with less risk of over powering the traction of unweighted front tyre being braked.....

    Well that was theory that Bob Haldane told me years ago. Not that most of the time i have either:
    1) enough power in the bike I'm riding to really cause an unweighted front
    2) enough capacity in the head to use the rear brake in most situations
    3) am riding old bikes that have a more rear ward weight bias.

  4. #34
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    25th March 2004 - 17:22
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    Um, sorry are you saying that you would start braking from a heavy on throttle and not close it until after you put the rear on? Didn't think so.

    As soon as we shut the throttle hard the weight transfer has started and the front brake is starting to bite. It is diving at the front, assuming you aren't on a GTS yam or Tesi, but I'm sure you've been in a thousand braking battles on the track going from extremes.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by malcy25 View Post
    The theory doesn't quite work in my mind sorry. Being on the gas has the weight rear biased. Grabbing the front first will means little weight load on when you first grab it.....snagging the rear brake slightly before the front will get the weight transfer moving, but with less risk of over powering the traction of unweighted front tyre being braked.....
    If you have a need to brake ... the first thing that happens is as you come off the throttle ... the weight will start to transfer onto the front wheel by that action alone. A fraction of a second later when the (both) brakes are applied ... and with de-acceleration to aid braking ... grip will be firm at both ends.

    In situations where there is no urgency in braking (in general road riding situations) ... the delay between applying back brake and applying front brake can be used. This (if done correctly) will not cause the rear tire to skid ... as the intention is to slow down and be firmly under control ... as opposed to an immediate and rapid (emergency) stop. Practice at doing this well is needed. But well worth the time.

    The key words are ... Staying under control. With some practice ... a stop can be quite rapid.


    The key factor is what speed you were traveling at before the brakes were applied. Weather/road conditions being secondary.
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete376403 View Post
    It's not (from the picture) a very sharp corner so should have had visibility of the sheep early enough.

    However, he lived and thats a win.
    Here is the location.

    https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-43.3...7i16384!8i8192
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post
    Not going to judge, seems wandering stock was the issue.
    Trying to go around them at speed on a loud motorcycle is difficult.
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  8. #38
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    Sheep can be quite well camouflaged raising on the side of the road especialy in longer grass. They will either stand in the middle of the road then run away from you in the direction you are travelling then stop and go to the side of the road they ran out from originally cutting in front of the bike. Or stay in the grass and then leap out in front of you at the last minute. I do a lot of back road riding and sometimes you just don't see them until the last minute.

    I had a similar thing at night involving a bullock. The head light beem seemed to just be obsorbed in to its body then he turned his head and I spotted the reflection from his eyes.

  9. #39
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    I ride Road bikes, dirt bikes and raced both and have a horses for courses approach.
    Road riding has it's own challenges, so I have a set up and ride style pretty much exactly like bonez. My rear brake is set up that it only kinda starts to lock at the very bottom of the lever travel arc, and my riding style is based around button off and engine braking (mild) and roll the throttle on gently just before the apex - in other words, ride in a way the brakes are not required. Emergency braking I use both in measures dictated by road surface, road incline and grip available.
    Bonez also mentions critters, especially the ever popular wayward NZ sheep. I'm my much younger days I came over a rise and through a set of esses at speed, and a bloody sheep launched a surprise attack. I braked as best I could, and managed to chop down a gear and just before impact, I got off the brakes and hit the throttle as hard as I could, while aiming for it's flanks and punched it straight off the road. If hitting an animal is unavoidable, what ever you do, don't hit it while under brakes, if at all possible scrub off as much speed as possible, then accelerate into it - trust me, it is your best chance of staying on the bike.

  10. #40
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    That's brave. I'd like to see the controlled experiment to show that was best option everytime.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    That's brave. I'd like to see the controlled experiment to show that was best option everytime.
    It certainly makes more sense ... than letting fate determine how you collide with a sheep.

    Stay in control of the situation until it's over.

    However it ends ...
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    That's brave. I'd like to see the controlled experiment to show that was best option everytime.
    I have no idea how you would organize a controlled experiment. You don't want your tyre to lock the moment the critters skin and flesh start to separate from the pressure of said tyre or you will be going down for sure.
    I have hit several critters, if you hit rabbit/hare/possum size whole accelerating you barely feel them. Once hit a hare while on the pegs on an RG250 with myself and my NZ volleyball rep 2 meter tall mate on the back on piekak hill, so 2 x 2 meter plus dudes on that small bike lol
    For animals up to sheep size accelerate just before impact, anything bigger that is going to be a certain unavoidable hit - it is try your best to stand on the pegs time and get ready to fly and pray, stay sitting down and it will be a broken pelvis at the least.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    It certainly makes more sense ... than letting fate determine how you collide with a sheep.

    Stay in control of the situation until it's over.

    However it ends ...
    When I hit the sheep in the flanks, the bike did punch it off the road, and the impact sent the bike into an odd slow motion tank slapper which I managed to wrestle under control - whew.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    It certainly makes more sense ... than letting fate determine how you collide with a sheep.

    Stay in control of the situation until it's over.

    However it ends ...
    If I've messed up and hitting something is unavoidable, then I have lost control already. No one hitting anything except a shop window ram raider, is in control of the situation.

    I'd certainly want to hit with the least possible speed.

    But to make the best of the situation he could well be right about not hitting it with the forks fully compressed and front at adhesion limit. But accelerating adds speed. Maybe letting go of brake.

    Whether I could convince myself to do that I don't know. Probably too scared.

    Sheep are concerning. I keep a continously roving eye in farmland and brake early if I see them. But I've been caught napping and been lucky too.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    Sheep are concerning. I keep a continously roving eye in farmland and brake early if I see them. But I've been caught napping and been lucky too.
    A little while back I made a post about stock on the road. It may help some. But every situation is different.

    And I've been lucky a few times too.
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

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