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Thread: Close call....

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by R650R View Post
    Red Flag 3 is the age of the ute. A vehicle of this vintage cares not for a few minor low speed bumps and scrapes likely driven by someone on lower socioeconomic scale so likely lower education, less observant and more likely substance impaired...
    I realise the comment is likely, and maybe I am biased because my cage is a cheap old bomb (which equals more cash to spend on bikes!). We all develop confirmation biases, but I am usually more wary of people driving flash new Audis than old utes when it comes to being an aggressive & thoughtless dickhead. Best point is every other road user is out to kill us (either intentionally or through incompetence - it doesn't really matter at the moment you are flying over the bonnet) until proven otherwise.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcshaz View Post
    . Best point is every other road user is out to kill us (either intentionally or through incompetence - it doesn't really matter at the moment you are flying over the bonnet) until proven otherwise.
    I totally disagree with this thought process. It creates an 'us vs them' situation. No one sets out to kill another road user. Instead I see it as 'they haven't seen me so I need to be in control of the situation'.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by onearmedbandit View Post
    I totally disagree with this thought process. It creates an 'us vs them' situation. No one sets out to kill another road user. Instead I see it as 'they haven't seen me so I need to be in control of the situation'.
    Hear, hear!

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by onearmedbandit View Post
    I totally disagree with this thought process. It creates an 'us vs them' situation.
    regarding us vs them - I meant every other road user, bikes included (I have had a bike coming the other way get past me on the inside of a left hand corner once), so actually it is me vs everyone else - no us.

    As to intentionally, I agree it is a minority, but I disagree with none. Just the other week I had someone at Anawhata road hammer into T junction while looking straight at my eyes and tracking me for the preceding several seconds, making me pull hard on the anchors despite me having clear right of way, and as they accelerated up to speed give me the finger out the back window (I didn't beep them or rev bomb them, so the finger was just confirmation they saw me). Car full of 17-19 year old lads. I am sure they will eventually grow up, but for now, they were intentionally using the fact that I would come out worse in an accident to avoid waiting another few seconds and obey the road code - something I am sure they would not have done had I been a Mack truck. Similarly we have all seen people look in their mirror intentionally close lane filtering gaps. They may not think the potential consequences through, so to be pedantic "human factors mean that it is harder for the brains of many drivers to see and register our presence on the road. Additionally many road users are incompetent and don't even look in the first place and some are intentionally out to impede our progress and/or dangerously ignore right of way without regard for the consequences, including fatal consequences".

    To go more extreme, generally arguments like "No one sets out to kill another road user" will always fall down to extreme and rare examples. I have been in this situation many years ago - that is the police (in NSW) advised me in the strongest possible terms that I not ride my bike until after a particular person was incarcerated.

  5. #20
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    I didn't think I would need to explain there would be rare exceptions. It's like saying everyone is out to mug you because there is a chance that one in a 100,000 people might, no one says that. If people believed that or thought like that no good would come from it.

    My point remains, I don't think adopting the mentality of 'everyone is out to kill you' is the right mentality.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by onearmedbandit View Post
    I didn't think I would need to explain there would be rare exceptions. It's like saying everyone is out to mug you because there is a chance that one in a 100,000 people might, no one says that. If people believed that or thought like that no good would come from it.

    My point remains, I don't think adopting the mentality of 'everyone is out to kill you' is the right mentality.
    I wouldn't have posted the original complaint because I would be sitting behind the traffic rather trhan filter through. Lane splitting on my Hayabusa would be a 'never do' in my book.

    Just saying..

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by onearmedbandit View Post
    My point remains, I don't think adopting the mentality of 'everyone is out to kill you' is the right mentality.
    I've always read that there are better ways of looking after yourself than that. If you aren't aware of the others though that's certainly better than nothing. When I was riding a moped to work it was common for people ot pull out in front of me while looking directly at me. It would be entirely possible to believe they were out to get you.

    One of the alternative approaches is to keep clear space around you. If nothing comes into that space nothing can hit you. I can't recall the suggested distance - it was a long time ago, maybe a metre and a half or 2m? If the guy doing the filtering was using that approach he would not have had a problem.

    Another approach is to watch for anything unusual. Most of the traffic will flow normally and unless you do something silly there is minimal danger. Anybody doing anything different should set off alarm bells.

    I might have a look in my library tomorrow and see what I can find?
    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

  8. #23
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    So you speed between the lanes and you expect a sympathy vote. Well you won't get one here.
    If it rains on your parade, use the umbrella of eternal optimism

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motig View Post
    So you speed between the lanes and you expect a sympathy vote. Well you won't get one here.
    Over and above the potential safety issues involved ... there is some confusion on whether or not lane splitting is actually legal on New Zealand roads. The short answer is ... it depends. Lane splitting falls within the overtaking rules as found in the Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004.

    There is not a simple yes or no to the legality of the practice. Just because you can ... doesn't always mean you should. Or always legal/illegal.

    https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regu...DLM303050.html

    2.8 Passing on left

    (1) A driver must not pass or attempt to pass on the left of another vehicle moving in the same direction except in accordance with this clause.

    (2)In any case in which the movement referred to subclause (1) may be made,—

    (a) The 2 vehicles must be in different lanes; or

    (b) The overtaken vehicle must be stationary or its driver must have given or be giving the prescribed signal of that driver’s intention to turn right

    This bit takes a bit of thought though ...

    (3) If the roadway is marked in lanes, the driver may make the movement referred in subclause (1) only if the driver’s vehicle does not encroach on a lane that is unavailable to a driver.

    But the basic fact when Lane splitting ... you are moving faster than the general speed of the traffic flow. You stand out. You get noticed by other vehicle drivers ... often ones with the red and blue flashing stuff on the roof. They may ignore you ... usually because they have another (more important) issue they have to deal with FIRST. Not always just because you are riding within the law ... and/or ... riding safely.

    And as already mentioned ... those tin-top drivers you are passing ... don't like it. Tough you say ... well ... it can be tough if (for ANY reason) ... you make contact with any other vehicle. The difference between accidental and intentional is hard to prove in a court of law.

    Even a careless use charge found proven in court should be counted as a win. Getting it TO court is a start though.


    And stop using the Hazard lights ... the improper use of Hazard lights IS a traffic offense. And it attracts more attention to YOU than it should ... by the wrong people.

    Think about who those "Wrong" people are ... or could be.
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by pritch View Post
    I've always read that there are better ways of looking after yourself than that. If you aren't aware of the others though that's certainly better than nothing. When I was riding a moped to work it was common for people ot pull out in front of me while looking directly at me. It would be entirely possible to believe they were out to get you.

    One of the alternative approaches is to keep clear space around you. If nothing comes into that space nothing can hit you. I can't recall the suggested distance - it was a long time ago, maybe a metre and a half or 2m? If the guy doing the filtering was using that approach he would not have had a problem.

    Another approach is to watch for anything unusual. Most of the traffic will flow normally and unless you do something silly there is minimal danger. Anybody doing anything different should set off alarm bells.

    I might have a look in my library tomorrow and see what I can find?
    Being aware is key. I guess my stance on the 'out to kill you' approach is that I've seen it lead to road rage over simple minor mistakes that really were not dangerous and didn't warrant that response. At the end of the day we all have to share the road and if we can do that amicably rather than with division and anger then that can only be a good thing.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by onearmedbandit View Post
    Being aware is key. I guess my stance on the 'out to kill you' approach is that I've seen it lead to road rage over simple minor mistakes that really were not dangerous and didn't warrant that response. At the end of the day we all have to share the road and if we can do that amicably rather than with division and anger then that can only be a good thing.
    I've noticed that the people that are pushing the boundaries of "Safe" riding ... are often the first to rage about another drivers "Dangerous" driving when there is a close call ... Go figure ...
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by caspernz View Post
    What he said ^^ is about all I saw.

    Differential speed is kinda hard to tell, as it looks faster on camera than it feels doing it.
    Having taken a look at the video I'm not convinced that this was a deliberate act.

    Other factors to note are:

    1. Use of hazards - Just say 'No!'

    2. Differential speed - That is always key when filtering. Use the 30/30 rule - That is don't filter when the traffic is going faster than 30Km/hr and don't let the difference between your speed and those around you be greater than 30Km/hr.

    I was told that some years ago on a Ride Forever course and it has served me well.

    Putting the issue of legality to one side - I have filtered on AKL's motorways many times and it was always a case of 'If in doubt don't do it', as with any city environment.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by onearmedbandit View Post
    ... My point remains, I don't think adopting the mentality of 'everyone is out to kill you' is the right mentality.
    Is the "I've been doing it for years with no issues ... what's the problem .. ??" attitude ... the correct way to look at it as well .. ??
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by onearmedbandit View Post
    I totally disagree with this thought process. It creates an 'us vs them' situation. No one sets out to kill another road user. Instead I see it as 'they haven't seen me so I need to be in control of the situation'.
    You’d like the zen road rage series filmed in London....

    While it might work for you the adversarial approach is prob quite s natural human instinct in Wolfpack scenario of crowded traffic and works with How our brains are hardwired. Most intelligent people can utilise this without letting it turn to road rage.

    While this incident likely wasn’t on purpose many a trucker will tell you of cars DELIBERATELY obstructing them with little regard to their own safety or that of others. The classic brake check or other crap like in video below. And if people are willing to try it on with a truck you can bet they don’t give a flying feck about bikes or cars....


  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pritch View Post
    I've always read that there are better ways of looking after yourself than that. If you aren't aware of the others though that's certainly better than nothing. When I was riding a moped to work it was common for people to pull out in front of me while looking directly at me. It would be entirely possible to believe they were out to get you.
    If you adopt the attitude that everybody could be after your wallet ... you make more effort to keep it safe. If you adopt the attitude everybody could be out to kill you with their car ... you spend more time and care looking out for them. What could be the downside to that .. ??

    Quote Originally Posted by pritch View Post
    One of the alternative approaches is to keep clear space around you. If nothing comes into that space nothing can hit you. I can't recall the suggested distance - it was a long time ago, maybe a metre and a half or 2m? If the guy doing the filtering was using that approach he would not have had a problem.
    We have a few stretches of road down here ... laughingly called motorways. Little chance of avoiding them and still get out of town quickly. They bear little similarities to Auckland's ones. But I keep a good spacing from other vehicles. They are not long enough to gain anything by filtering. On the open roads however ... I treat all vehicles within 100 meters of me as a possible threat. If they are behind me ... or in front ... it matters little. But I have had more issues with vehicles approaching from behind.

    Quote Originally Posted by pritch View Post
    Another approach is to watch for anything unusual. Most of the traffic will flow normally and unless you do something silly there is minimal danger. Anybody doing anything different should set off alarm bells.
    Try thinking ... "If THEY do anything silly" ... let the alarms go off ...
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

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