Judith Collins getting the arse.

[JimO]

You'll have to remind me about her dazzlingly successful business career. I seem to have missed that.

fish n chip magnate

[TheDemonLord]

You'll have to remind me about her dazzlingly successful business career. I seem to have missed that.

We all seem to have missed that.

I'm referring to her continued discriminatory, immoral and illiberal policies.

At least a corporate sociopath might know how to run a large entity...

Also with the traffic light system, I now have a much deeper understanding of how the Holocaust happened.

The amount of people who have said "I'm just following the rules" is depressing and disgusting.

[FJRider]

... I'm referring to her continued docastiscriminatory, immoral and illiberal policies.

People are still free to make choices that may affect or improve their lifestyle. If the vaccine was as bad as some claim ... the hospitals would have more getting treated for the bad reaction to the vaccine. How many are you aware of that are in that situation in hospital .. ??

At least a corporate sociopath might know how to run a large entity...

"She" may well be knowing how ... and the NZ Government is quite a large "entity" in most regards ... Billions of $$$$ at stake. Be sure to vote in the next election if you want change ...

Also with the traffic light system, I now have a much deeper understanding of how the Holocaust happened.

As I recall from my basic secondary education ... the Holocaust was Race based.

Perhaps ... you don't understand at all.


The traffic light system is all about people making the right choices for everybody's benefit. Not JUST your own.

The amount of people who have said "I'm just following the rules" is depressing and disgusting.

Those "Just following the rules" ... are the people that are allowed to go places and do stuff.

[F5 Dave]

Perhaps TDL would be happy if people just decided society didn't need rules.

People could just smack nerds in the head for giggles. Or rape them.

TDL could be sore at both ends.


But Oh. The Freedom.

[TheDemonLord]

People are still free to make choices that may affect or improve their lifestyle.

"You're welcome not to pay the Protection Money, but Bricks may affect your Window"

If the vaccine was as bad as some claim ... the hospitals would have more getting treated for the bad reaction to the vaccine. How many are you aware of that are in that situation in hospital .. ??

I've never said anything negative about the Vaccine. In fact, I've said the science behind the Vaccine seems sound and that the speed at which it was developed is a modern Marvel. There are some negative reactions, but they seem to be on-par with most other vaccines.

My issue is entirely with the authoritarian enforcement and requirements to get the Vaccine.

"She" may well be knowing how ... and the NZ Government is quite a large "entity" in most regards ... Billions of $$$$ at stake. Be sure to vote in the next election if you want change ...

Well I voted Act last time and will do so again.

As I recall from my basic secondary education ... the Holocaust was Race based.

That depends on whether you consider being Jewish to be a Religious position or a Racial position. I'll agree that there were definitely racial aspects to the Holocaust, but considering genetic testing wasn't a thing...

Not to mention there were other people who were killed and not on the basis of Race...

The traffic light system is all about people making the right choices for everybody's benefit. Not JUST your own.

"The Persecution of the Jew is all about the benefit of the entire German People"

Those "Just following the rules" ... are the people that are allowed to go places and do stuff.

Yes, the good little Aryans.

"First they came for the Trade Unionists, I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Trade Unionists
Then they came for the Gypsies, I didn't out because I wasn't a Gypsy
Then they came for the Jews, I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew
When they came for me, there was no left to speak out"

[TheDemonLord]

Perhaps TDL would be happy if people just decided society didn't need rules.

People could just smack nerds in the head for giggles. Or rape them.

TDL could be sore at both ends.


But Oh. The Freedom.

Natural Rights.

That's all I'm asking for, things like the right to Bodily Autonomy. That's the thing that says that smacking of heads and Rape is wrong. It's also the thing that says using the compulsion of Government to make someone get a Vaccine they don't want to get is ALSO wrong.

Which actually makes your ridicule rather Ironic.

See, I'm very big on the whole Natural Rights thing, I'm also very big on the whole 'Not Discriminating' thing.

[FJRider]

Perhaps TDL would be happy if people just decided society didn't need rules.

People could just smack nerds in the head for giggles. Or rape them.

TDL could be sore at both ends.


But Oh. The Freedom.

People (apparently) have rights. One of those (apparently) is to do and say what they like (if [of course] it suits them}.

The same goes for "Rules" ... if the rules suit at the time .... all good. If they don't suit ... it is (of course) the fault of the tyrannical Government.

Even in the old "Wild West (Coast ??) there were rules in society. You could even shoot bad people ... and they paid you cash money to do it.

Freedoms are overrated. Until you haven't got any. And then ... your lack of freedoms is (always) somebody else's fault.

Has society (as we know it) really advanced any .. ??

[FJRider]

Natural Rights.

In the real world we call it Human rights. It's what the Laws of the (any) country are based on. To ensure the safety of weaker members of that society that find it difficult to protect themselves.

That's all I'm asking for, things like the right to Bodily Autonomy. That's the thing that says that smacking of heads and Rape is wrong. It's also the thing that says using the compulsion of Government to make someone get a Vaccine they don't want to get is ALSO wrong.

It is not illegal to not get vaccinated. THAT is LAW. Those that choose not to get vaccinated may loose some freedom to access some activities, and restrictions on where they can go. NOBODY will be taken against their will and be vaccinated. Most of the weaker members of society will voluntarily present themselves for vaccination. They know it's in their own best interest.

Which actually makes your ridicule rather Ironic.

It may be wise to expect more.

See, I'm very big on the whole Natural Rights thing, I'm also very big on the whole 'Not Discriminating' thing.

Nobody cares if you're short, fat, and/or stupid ... (not to mention argumentative) ... they'll vaccinate you anyway. Discrimination is not permitted for those doing the vaccination's ... by law.

[R650R]

Many people who have acheived success in business, and therefore in life, are sociopaths. So no, I don't want a sociopath running the country thanks.

I hear you but he hardly fits that description.... actually I’d just like someone who talks straight and Seymour is the only one doing that

[FJRider]

"You're welcome not to pay the Protection Money, but Bricks may affect your Window"

I never "PAID" anything for my vaccination protection. It was free. Were you not aware of that .. ??

I've never said anything negative about the Vaccine. In fact, I've said the science behind the Vaccine seems sound and that the speed at which it was developed is a modern Marvel. There are some negative reactions, but they seem to be on-par with most other vaccines.

My issue is entirely with the authoritarian enforcement and requirements to get the Vaccine.

With the "authoritarian enforcement" came a lower rate of infections and deaths ... than most other countries of similar size (or per head of population) to NZ ... and those countries with more freedoms and fewer restrictions than we have.

Well I voted Act last time and will do so again.

If 100 people were chosen at random ... I doubt 5 of them could name the leader of the Act Party.

That depends on whether you consider being Jewish to be a Religious position or a Racial position. I'll agree that there were definitely racial aspects to the Holocaust, but considering genetic testing wasn't a thing...

They were referred to as being "Of the Jewish Race". You may not be actually aware that ALL citizens had to declare their ethnicity in writing to the authorities. Jews were held in the same regard as Colored persons.

Not to mention there were other people who were killed and not on the basis of Race...

It may come as a surprise to you ... but not all citizens of Germany agreed with Hitlers plans and ambitions. Regardless of their wealth or position. Their money and property was seized, and those people were either shot, or placed in labour camps. (usually the former)

"The Persecution of the Jew is all about the benefit of the entire German People"

To help "purify" the German race ... the murder of other groups for their perceived racial (or biological) inferiority ... also occurred. And possibly one of the reasons he invaded Russia. (That didn't end well for him)

Yes, the good little Aryans.

See above ...

"First they came for the Trade Unionists, I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Trade Unionists
Then they came for the Gypsies, I didn't out because I wasn't a Gypsy
Then they came for the Jews, I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew
When they came for me, there was no left to speak out"

Personally ... I do not think it is the Government that will cause your demise ... You'll cause it yourself ...

[HenryDorsetCase]

LOL I love these antivax nutjobs. My particular favourite is the "but muh freedumbs". No one is forcing these knobends to do anything. Dont want a vaccine? Cool, no one is loading you into a coal train, taking you to, I dunno, Botany Downs and working you to death. If you don't wanna vaccine thats your choice. But in the grown up world choices have consequences. Those consequences include not being able to go places or join the grownups as they socialise and get on with life. At it's essence it is that simple.

The other thing that I won't get into is their "arguments" (which arent arguments at all) about the basis for and the efficacy of the vaccine. But all these fucking retards should be doing is looking around and asking themselves a question - which is "OK, so if it was so bad, and 90% of the population (roughly) have had it, has the population reduced by 90% in the last year? No? Huh, OK, maybe it isnt so bad after all.

Oh, and the visual disconnect of these angry fuckwits carrying (of all things) fucking Trump flags and United Tribes flags and "yer a communist AND hitler" (who was not a communist) and being egged on by the criminal genius with the lovely eyebrows the EFTpostle Brain Tamaki (Praywave TM). I just hope none of those cunts breed. Sadly it seems too late.

When I rule you (and I will) there will be licences for procreation, and none of these people will be granted them.

[TheDemonLord]

In the real world we call it Human rights. It's what the Laws of the (any) country are based on. To ensure the safety of weaker members of that society that find it difficult to protect themselves.

No.

See, The concept of Natural rights is the Genesis for what we today call Human Rights - however the current declaration of Human Rights has a number of things that conceptually I disagree with.

A Natural right does not require anyone to do anything, whereas a number of Human Rights do. All the Government needs to do is uphold my Natural Rights - but they aren't.

It is not illegal to not get vaccinated. THAT is LAW. Those that choose not to get vaccinated may loose some freedom to access some activities, and restrictions on where they can go.

So, you're using the threat of Government force (in the form of a $15,000 fine) to compel people to discriminate against those who choose not to be Vaccinated.

I happen to hold that those freedoms and activities are part of those natural rights.

NOBODY will be taken against their will and be vaccinated. Most of the weaker members of society will voluntarily present themselves for vaccination. They know it's in their own best interest.

No, we'll just keep discriminating against them until they bend the knee.

Nobody cares if you're short, fat, and/or stupid ... (not to mention argumentative) ... they'll vaccinate you anyway. Discrimination is not permitted for those doing the vaccination's ... by law.

They only care if you are unvaccinated, which is discriminatory.

[F5 Dave]

I can't see you TDL except where people quote you.

But I'm not hearing "No", to "Sore at both ends."

Your choice, and we don't kink shame here.

[pritch]

That depends on whether you consider being Jewish to be a Religious position or a Racial position. I'll agree that there were definitely racial aspects to the Holocaust, but considering genetic testing wasn't a thing...

Not to mention there were other people who were killed and not on the basis of Race...

It's not what any of us consider, it's what Hiler and his henchmen considered. You could consider that millions of the other people murdered were gypsies or Slavs who were definitely selected for their ethnicity.

[TheDemonLord]

I never "PAID" anything for my vaccination protection. It was free. Were you not aware of that .. ??

I'm comparing the Government to the Mafia running a Protection racket.

With the "authoritarian enforcement" came a lower rate of infections and deaths ... than most other countries00 of similar size (or per head of population) to NZ ... and those countries with more freedoms and fewer restrictions than we have.

See, I've heard this theory a lot. I'm yet to be convinced - given that there seems to have been multiple ways to deal with the Virus, Taiwan as an example. From the Data available, there's a reasonable case to be made that the natural layout and population distribution in NZ had a far bigger effect than any Government Policy.

Also bonus points for aging population, pre-existing health issues (like Obesity etc.).

But all that is an aside: Freedoms have a cost - those who trade Freedom for safety deserve neither, I think is the Franklin quote. We seem to have forgotten that.

Not only that, but there's a number of very concerning precedents set.

If 100 people were chosen at random ... I doubt 5 of them could name the leader of the Act Party.

Leader? I'd take that Bet and be confident of winning.
Any other MP, not so much.

They were referred to as being "Of the Jewish Race". You may not be actually aware that ALL citizens had to declare their ethnicity in writing to the authorities. Jews were held in the same regard as Colored persons.

I've read other sources were being in possession of Jewish items (like a copy of the Torah) was good enough - the point being however that if we put the Ethnic victims aside, there were (as you acknowledge in your next statement) victims who were persecuted on a purely ideological level.

Just like people who don't wish to Vaccinate are being discriminated against now.

It may come as a surprise to you ... but not all citizens of Germany agreed with Hitlers plans and ambitions. Regardless of their wealth or position. Their money and property was seized, and those people were either shot, or placed in labour camps. (usually the former)

Indeed - but everyone else either stood by and did nothing or implicitly allowed it to happen. I've seen some shop owners not comply with the new Legislation and some shop owners who have changed the way they operate so as to not have to discriminate.

They have my respect (and my business), the others don't.

To help "purify" the German race ... the murder of other groups for their perceived racial (or biological) inferiority ... also occurred. And possibly one of the reasons he invaded Russia. (That didn't end well for him)

Yes, we've got to keep those unclean Unvaccinated people away from the Pure Vaccinated.

Same logic, same discrimination - it was wrong in 1939 and was abhorrent in 1944, just as it's wrong now. A Government must never discriminate against a group of people.

Personally ... I do not think it is the Government that will cause your demise ... You'll cause it yourself ...

Well, so far I've managed to avoid it. Whether that's through Luck or Skill, I'll leave to you - cause I'm not sure either!