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Thread: Some sense at last!

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete376403 View Post
    But that would have required land from St Pats and the Heretaunga Golf Club - both organisations would have wanted far more than the council would (or could) pay. I recall the mayor of the time crowing about how they saved money for fill by widening Wallaceville Hill road at the same time and reusing the dirt. The whole thing was about cheap, if you dont count the 11 or so people killed on the road in the first year, plus more in subsequent years, then the major reconstructions since then which will NEVER fix the Moonshine bridge bottleneck (and the ongoing resurfacings)
    I thought it had been built and paid for by NZTA or Land Transport or whoever was the Gov't organisation. Knew folks whose property backed onto the golf course and they were of the opinion that it should have been built on a stopbank on the eastern side but wasn't / wouldn't be / couldn't be because of the golf course, rather than St Pat's who only farmed down by the river.

    Still comes back to interference by interested party/ies over-ruling the common good.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by nerrrd View Post
    I think we need to ask ourselves what is it really that makes being held up by slower traffic so frustrating, and why that seems to override normally sensible decision making in the heat of the moment.
    With the current logic of lowering speed limits, there will be increased instances of frustrated road users. The net result will be the same amount of road deaths, but our idiots in charge will fail to acknowledge that.
    TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post

    His version is now probably now on social media blaming everyone else. And that is what is wrong with male aggression and vehicles. The more I raced the more respect I had for the road.
    Thus spake Dr Spiegel, nothng in human evolution prepared us for motor vehicles. In most people there is a lack of connection between actions and consequences until about age 25. With motor vehicles there is no age limit, that connection may not develop at all.
    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete376403 View Post
    So if the road had been designed properly by engineers (instead of accountants) the required drainage would have been put in place before the road bad perhaps?
    Don't give the engineers too much credit. There is a railway underpass not a million miles from here. The road goes under the railway line, just to make it clear. TPTB decided it would be nice to have more headroom for heavy vehicles. I'm assuming engineers were involved, but anyhoo the road was lowered - into the water table.
    Brilliant - just fucking brilliant.
    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    Have you actually considered ... that the posted speed limit for ANY portion of ANY roadway in NZ is actually irrelevant .. ???

    And have you considered that ... often the speed limit on many parts (and in some cases ... most parts) of those roads is actually dangerous to drive at the posted legal speed limit for those roads ???

    And have you considered ... that traveling in such places at "legal" speeds ... you CAN be charged with dangerous driving ... ???


    I know SH6 pretty well ... and there are plenty of places on it ... that any speed over 50 km/hr (in/on ANY vehicle) IS dangerous.

    I bet you don't know the difference between "Dangerous Driving" and "Exceeding posted speed limits" ... The two are NOT the same.

    The Highway Patrol Policy is there (sometimes) to enforce speed limits ... but exceeding the posted speed limits are not always dangerous as such. But that is the starting point of enforcement policy.



    One SIMPLE fact that you should seriously consider ... and ... take time to think about. The MAJORITY of the deaths on New Zealand roads and highways ... occurred at LESS than the LEGAL SPEED LIMIT for the roads they were on.


    SPEED Doesn't (always) kill. But ... stupidity does it more often. And the really sad part of that bit is ... the stupid aren't usually/always the one's killed.

    Go figure ...


    And if YOU can stick to the legal speed limit for the entire distance between Blenheim and Nelson ... you are a better rider than I am.
    All good points mate - My concern about that stretch of SH6 is that the lower limits now make things even more soporific. Cars don't bother to overtake a truck doing 80-90Km/hr which makes performing a safe overtake even more of a challenge. Believe me when I say that I don't manage to stick to the speed limit all the way along that stretch of road

    I just wish that the powers that be would accept that simply lowering limits can be counter productive - As I believe has been the case here. I'd much rather see more resource set aside for enforcing the existing traffic laws. What NZTA have done here is mere window dressing and represents the proverbial ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Boy View Post
    All good points mate - My concern about that stretch of SH6 is that the lower limits now make things even more soporific. Cars don't bother to overtake a truck doing 80-90Km/hr which makes performing a safe overtake even more of a challenge. Believe me when I say that I don't manage to stick to the speed limit all the way along that stretch of road
    If you don't stick to the speed limit ... overtaking (for you) shouldn't be an issue.

    Those that travel at slower speeds are more likely to survive an accident. An accident I might add ... that is probably due to their own stupidity and/or lack of self control. I just hope it doesn't involve the truck driver.

    There are plenty of places in NZ that has roads that make overtaking a slower vehicle difficult. Regardless of the posted speed limit in those areas. Why pick on THIS road .. ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Boy View Post
    I just wish that the powers that be would accept that simply lowering limits can be counter productive - As I believe has been the case here. I'd much rather see more resource set aside for enforcing the existing traffic laws. What NZTA have done here is mere window dressing and represents the proverbial ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.
    I am sure the NEW speed limits in this area will be WELL enforced. Infringement notices are issued on the basis/principal of km's OVER the posted speed limit. 40 km/hr over the the posted speed limit ... and you're walking. Those fines (and license loss) you used to get at 140 km/hr ... you'll get at 130.



    The ball (as they say) is now in your court. I hope it goes well for you.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Boy View Post
    I just wish that the powers that be would accept that simply lowering limits can be counter productive - As I believe has been the case here. I'd much rather see more resource set aside for enforcing the existing traffic laws. What NZTA have done here is mere window dressing and represents the proverbial ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.
    Absolutely right Lee. It's not just happening in your patch though.

    Having just spent a week in Northland, the prolific sections of roadworks with long 30 or 50 km/h approaches, then the works sections themselves...no enforcement is apparent. Do roughly the posted temporary limit and you become the odd one out.
    Never mind the sections where the posted limit has been permanently lowered to a mind numbing level, so the same effect takes place, do roughly the posted limit and most drivers become annoyed

    Now I've been involved in rider/driver education for longer than I care to admit. If what we teach isn't enforced in a meaningful way, is it any wonder the average rider/driver behaves the way they do? Little or no consequences for their poor behaviour

    BTW - not having a crack at our law enforcement community, the resources are limited, totally get that. Politics get in the way of progress on many levels

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by caspernz View Post
    Absolutely right Lee. It's not just happening in your patch though.

    Having just spent a week in Northland, the prolific sections of roadworks with long 30 or 50 km/h approaches, then the works sections themselves...no enforcement is apparent. Do roughly the posted temporary limit and you become the odd one out.
    Never mind the sections where the posted limit has been permanently lowered to a mind numbing level, so the same effect takes place, do roughly the posted limit and most drivers become annoyed

    Now I've been involved in rider/driver education for longer than I care to admit. If what we teach isn't enforced in a meaningful way, is it any wonder the average rider/driver behaves the way they do? Little or no consequences for their poor behaviour

    BTW - not having a crack at our law enforcement community, the resources are limited, totally get that. Politics get in the way of progress on many levels
    You've hit the nail on the head there Rob - That poor behaviours simply go unpunished far too often due to lack of resource. Human nature is such that if behaviours aren't modified then people will always head for the path of least resistance. Mobile device usage is a prime example too.

    Which is why the NZTA simply lowering a speed limit actually can make things worse, not better. SH6 is the best example that is close to where I do the majority of my riding and typifies all the issues people have highlighted in the posts above. Going more slowly and assuming that you can't overtake vehicles in front of you makes people switch off, which then leads to bad decisions and poor driving standards. The longer queues of traffic are what make performing a safe overtake more difficult and that's before you come to the frustration it leads to in drivers and riders alike. Like many I will almost certainly exceed the speed limit when performing an overtake - It's what makes bikes so much fun and it means you spend less time on the wrong side of the road.

    Incidentally - And for clarity to some of our forum members - I've seen very little enforcement on SH6 since the limits were changed. The occasional police vehicle but certainly no more than I'd have expected to see in years gone by. That's a real shame as some of the driving/riding I've witnessed would have given said police some fertile hunting ground.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by caspernz View Post
    Absolutely right Lee. It's not just happening in your patch though.

    Having just spent a week in Northland, the prolific sections of roadworks with long 30 or 50 km/h approaches, then the works sections themselves...no enforcement is apparent. Do roughly the posted temporary limit and you become the odd one out.
    Never mind the sections where the posted limit has been permanently lowered to a mind numbing level, so the same effect takes place, do roughly the posted limit and most drivers become annoyed

    Now I've been involved in rider/driver education for longer than I care to admit. If what we teach isn't enforced in a meaningful way, is it any wonder the average rider/driver behaves the way they do? Little or no consequences for their poor behaviour

    BTW - not having a crack at our law enforcement community, the resources are limited, totally get that. Politics get in the way of progress on many levels
    I'm in the Bay of Islands, most of the roads I commute on have been reduced to 80kmh limit. That speed has become my default setting to the point that when I hit a State Highway I'm still doing 80kmh until I re calibrate.

    Add in the roading budget up here, which must be at least $50 a year judging by the condition, and it's pretty shit.
    Manopausal.

  10. #40
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    Wonder who was the genius that decided all the passing lanes should be blocked off? Possibly a relative of the person with the plastics factory making a killing on road cones and marker poles.
    it's not a bad thing till you throw a KLR into the mix.
    those cheap ass bitches can do anything with ductape.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by caspernz View Post
    Now I've been involved in rider/driver education for longer than I care to admit. If what we teach isn't enforced in a meaningful way, is it any wonder the average rider/driver behaves the way they do? Little or no consequences for their poor behaviour
    What is it you teach in regard to the (ANY) posted speed limit ... and how does a change of a speed limit affect rider/driver "Education" ... ???

    "Enforced in a meaningful (???) way" ??? ...

    Quote Originally Posted by caspernz View Post
    BTW - not having a crack at our law enforcement community, the resources are limited, totally get that. Politics get in the way of progress on many levels
    Law "Enforcement" does not decide what ANY speed limit will be. They just ENFORCE the set speed limits ...
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Boy View Post
    You've hit the nail on the head there Rob - That poor behaviours simply go unpunished far too often due to lack of resource. Human nature is such that if behaviours aren't modified then people will always head for the path of least resistance. Mobile device usage is a prime example too.

    Which is why the NZTA simply lowering a speed limit actually can make things worse, not better. SH6 is the best example that is close to where I do the majority of my riding and typifies all the issues people have highlighted in the posts above. Going more slowly and assuming that you can't overtake vehicles in front of you makes people switch off, which then leads to bad decisions and poor driving standards. The longer queues of traffic are what make performing a safe overtake more difficult and that's before you come to the frustration it leads to in drivers and riders alike. Like many I will almost certainly exceed the speed limit when performing an overtake - It's what makes bikes so much fun and it means you spend less time on the wrong side of the road.

    Incidentally - And for clarity to some of our forum members - I've seen very little enforcement on SH6 since the limits were changed. The occasional police vehicle but certainly no more than I'd have expected to see in years gone by. That's a real shame as some of the driving/riding I've witnessed would have given said police some fertile hunting ground.
    Yeah it's the same all over the country it seems, I cover enough ground to have a real world view. Education is by no means perfect, but it's gotta go hand in hand with enforcement. Needs a bi-partisan approach from the political parties though. I'll just hold my breath shall I?


    Quote Originally Posted by george formby View Post
    I'm in the Bay of Islands, most of the roads I commute on have been reduced to 80kmh limit. That speed has become my default setting to the point that when I hit a State Highway I'm still doing 80kmh until I re calibrate.

    Add in the roading budget up here, which must be at least $50 a year judging by the condition, and it's pretty shit.
    For sure, having done a couple of laps of Northland recently, one for work and one for pleasure...I know what you mean. Sadly the situation you describe is similar all over NZ. The roading money may have been spent on warding off the covid boogeyman



    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    What is it you teach in regard to the (ANY) posted speed limit ... and how does a change of a speed limit affect rider/driver "Education" ... ???

    "Enforced in a meaningful (???) way" ??? ...



    Law "Enforcement" does not decide what ANY speed limit will be. They just ENFORCE the set speed limits ...
    Feel free to nitpick and get into semantics.

    If you can't see the connection between education and enforcement...the former won't work without the latter. Even if at the core it's an attitude problem, or entitlement problem if you wish.

    The blue team is short of resources, and yeah I get they don't set the speed limits, but thanks for pointing out the obvious

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by caspernz View Post
    Feel free to nitpick and get into semantics.
    I asked ... What is it you teach in regard to the (ANY) posted speed limit ... and how does a change of a speed limit affect rider/driver "Education" ... ???

    "Enforced in a meaningful (???) way" ??? ... Feel free to answer what you mean by that
    .

    Quote Originally Posted by caspernz View Post
    If you can't see the connection between education and enforcement...the former won't work without the latter. Even if at the core it's an attitude problem, or entitlement problem if you wish.
    Do you "educate" to obey speed limits ... or "educate" to decide for themselves a "SAFE" speed ... ??


    Quote Originally Posted by caspernz View Post
    The blue team is short of resources, and yeah I get they don't set the speed limits, but thanks for pointing out the obvious
    If it is so "obvious" ... why do you blame Police for enforcing any speed limit .. ??

    What "Resources" are they "Short of" .. ??

    You seem to be making claims you can't (or wont) back up.

    So far all we hear are your opinions.
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Boy View Post
    You've hit the nail on the head there Rob - That poor behaviours simply go unpunished far too often due to lack of resource.
    the cops don't want to deal with other offences than speed. Speed is easy, catch the person and the officer doesn't have to go to court as the judge takes their word for the speed, on a calibrated machine. Pull someone up for many offences and the many times the person will want a court sitting, the cops don't want to spend their day in court so don't bother. What they need is cameras in the cars to record all offences, then maybe road behaviour will change.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete376403 View Post
    Wonder who was the genius that decided all the passing lanes should be blocked off? Possibly a relative of the person with the plastics factory making a killing on road cones and marker poles.
    Someone that has seen all the numpties that can't merge at the end. They have been doing this for years, going north of Auckland. From what I have heard, it actually does a reasonable job of not making a shit situation worse.

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