Beehive occupation.

[FJRider]

I believe I have the right to ...

That understanding is the core basis of our Laws. Why is Theft a Crime? Because theft deprives someone else of their property or rights.

Not if they infringe on MY RIGHTS.

My rights are not up for negotiation.

There will be no negotiation if you infringe on mine.

The protest is a manifestation of that ethos.

A manifestation of something ... hardly of any ethos though.

Which is it? Either the rules are enFORCED, or they are not. The few Businesses that have been fined thousands of dollars for not wanting to Discriminate, Are they being held aloft and made examples of, to ensure compliance by the rest of the population?

Are they ALL being charged ... ?? hardly FORCE if they are not ALL being charged.

Easier for the businesses to make money ... if they stay IN business.

If there is any sanction upon the individual by the Government for non-compliance, then it is Force. We like to dress it up in flowery language, to divorce the fact that a Fine is backed by the threat of Violence and the overbearing tyranny of the State - but that fundamental link cannot be severed.

Them's the rules though ... life can be tough.

Nope, it happens much sooner then.

Much sooner then ... ??

I've told you why previously

Why would someone get vaccinated, but be opposed to a Vaccine Passport.

Because being dead is unbecoming. And unhealthy.

Perhaps there's some Ethic in there.

Maybe...

The ethic that being above ground is better than the alternative.

Maybe for some. I've run across a State Highway 1 ...

I was referring to a situation when ... somebody might like you dead. Just because his watch is busted and yours looks like it's working ok.

It is better to be a Warrior, tending to your garden.

Fighting off the moths ...

Group A publishes their Propaganda, against Group B
Group B publishes their Propaganda, against Group A

And you're ok with a guy getting hung for telling bullshit on the radio ... and that everybody (on both sides of the Channel) knew it was bullshit.

They should start that practice up again here in NZ.

Radio NZ lookout.

Certainly in a War

He was hung after the war ended.

In Britain, listening to Lord Haw Haw was discouraged but not illegal, Often people wanted to see things from the enemy perspective.

Monty Python had nothing on this guy. Most brits thought it of a sort of comedy program.

The BBC is another great example

The jury is still out ... on what it is a "Great Example" of ... I never was a fan of it.


Too many Pom's on it.

[Berries]

Can't show the video of the operation because some don't want to accidentally be identified for various reasons.

Yeah, I have video of Elvis at the KFC in Gore but can't show it for the same reason.

[FJRider]

I think you can shove that bit of projection up your well reamed ass.

It's not a prediction.


It is EXISTING and current figures.



Stay safe ...

[ellipsis]

...this is funny...so fucking funny...if it wasn't so sad, it would be even funnier...I hope you all have pointy sticks on hand and lots of tins of baked beans at the ready...

[mashman]

It's not a prediction.


It is EXISTING and current figures.



Stay safe ...

I wasn't meaning that kind of projection, because I wasn't skewing those figures in some way. Your projection was that I was... and you can shove that right up your ass... along with everything else you've chosen to project on my behalf.

Have you re-read the paper in context to answer you own questions yet?

[TheDemonLord]

I want to give praise to those that are debating this thread against a few dickhead individuals that are so stupid and lacking in common sense and brain cells that it beggars belief. If some of these people grew a brain cell it would be bloody lonely. They define a new level of dumb. Oxford Dictionary may well one day use them as the definition of dumb. I don't care if a few idiots, losers, hippies and dole bludgers want to protest at Parliament and demand their selfish so called rights. The problem is in their world only three people exist; me, myself & I. It is their hypocrisy, selfishness and total lack of thought, kindness, courtesy and caring to others that pisses me off. And all the time they chant, freedom and love for all. The lying worthless pieces of shit don't mean 'all', all they care about is me, myself & I. They want to overthrow the government, but you can rest assured not the Welfare Dept that gives them money for being useless, parasitic members of society. That Dept is Ok because it suits me, myself & I.. Lets just list a few of their accomplishments; stealing rubber mats from a childrens playground, throwing human faeces at people, pissing and shitting into the storm waters polluting our beautiful harbour, desecrating our war memorial to those that really did fight for our freedom, kicking a school girl for wearing a mask, closing two schools from trying to educate our children, closing dozens of businesses from trying to survive in tough times and pay their employees dependent on the income and denying good citizens of their freedom of movement and safety. Hardly the stuff of sainthoods.

This thread should be terminated because you cannot argue/debate with stupid and the rest of us intelligent New Zealanders (95%) are doing the right thing- doing what makes sense and is best for ALL, not me, myself, I

What is society made up of?

Individuals.

If MY rights are protected, that also means YOUR rights are protected. So when I care about Me, Myself and I that means I'm also caring about you.

Ultimately, I want freedom of choice, without coercion. Get the Vaccine, don't get the vaccine - whatever you choose is your business, nothing to do with me. I want everyone to have that same choice. If they choose to be Idiots, Loosers, Hippies and Dole Bludgers, that's their choice.

But again I point out - The standard of behavior has been set, remember when TPPA protestors were blocking roads and Labour MPs were speaking at the gatherings? Perhaps if Labour had loudly condemned certain behavior when it was a Protest they supported, they might have a leg to stand on.

However what is good for the Goose is good for the Gander.

And bonus point: Did the Protestors actually force the businesses to shut down? or did the owners choose to close their businesses? And for the bonus comparision - who has forced more businesses to close? The Protestors or The Government?

[TheDemonLord]

Not if they infringe on MY RIGHTS.

There will be no negotiation if you infringe on mine.

Exactly. You have arrived at my position. Based on the British Liberal conceptions of Natural Rights and how they are limited in relation to one another. And from this conception:

A manifestation of something ... hardly of any ethos though.

You've just agreed with the Protestors position: "There will be no negotiation if you infringe on mine."

That, right there, is the heart of the protest: We won't go until the Mandates are removed.

There will be no negotiation if you infringe on mine.

Are they ALL being charged ... ?? hardly FORCE if they are not ALL being charged.

Make a few examples and kowtow everyone else into compliance. Much more efficient.

Easier for the businesses to make money ... if they stay IN business.

Them's the rules though ... life can be tough.

Sure, and for a Fair and Just society, they are rooted in natural rights. Take Graffiti as an example - you're defacing someone elses property, someone else then has to spend time, effort and money to clean it up. You have infringed upon their natural rights. Thus a Fine (backed up by the force of Government) is entirely warranted.

Much sooner then ... ??

When the Ink dries

Because being dead is unbecoming. And unhealthy.
The ethic that being above ground is better than the alternative.

You're halfway there, there's something you need to add in though.

I was referring to a situation when ... somebody might like you dead. Just because his watch is busted and yours looks like it's working ok.

Good thing I don't wear watches then...

Fighting off the moths ...

Those sneaky bastards...

They should start that practice up again here in NZ.

Radio NZ lookout.

Not that I said it, but maybe the quality of journalism would improve....

He was hung after the war ended.

Monty Python had nothing on this guy. Most brits thought it of a sort of comedy program.

And even when he was Hung, there was a dissenting opinion in the House of Lords. Even Scoundrels and Wretches deserve a defence something something British Liberal values something.

The jury is still out ... on what it is a "Great Example" of ... I never was a fan of it.
Too many Pom's on it.

In terms of impartial reporting on facts - for a long time the BBC was considered the standard when it came to televised/radio news.

[Viking01]

Exactly. You have arrived at my position. Based on the British Liberal conceptions of Natural Rights and how they are limited in relation to one another. And from this conception:

.....

In terms of impartial reporting on facts - for a long time the BBC was considered the standard when it came to televised/radio news.

So, what are you saying ? That the Beeb is no longer considered fair and impartial in its reporting ?

What do you think about Boris's recent request (via Culture Secretary Nadine Dorries) to ask Ofcom to review - and possibly revoke - RT's operating licence ?

Cheers, Viking

[TheDemonLord]

So, what are you saying ? That the Beeb is no longer considered fair and impartial in its reporting ?

Hasn't been since around 2005/2010 or so. The tipping point for most people was their Brexit coverage. Since then the BBC has become increasingly left-wing and Woke. Which in of itself is a great tragedy, but in the grand scheme of things - it's just another Noble institution corrupted and destroyed by Marxism.

What do you think about Boris's recent request (via Culture Secretary Nadine Dorries) to ask Ofcom to review - and possibly revoke - RT's operating licence ?

Cheers, Viking

Assume that it goes through, will it have any effect? Barely. People will still be able to watch online.

[Viking01]

Hasn't been since around 2005/2010 or so. The tipping point for most people was their Brexit coverage. Since then the BBC has become increasingly left-wing and Woke. Which in of itself is a great tragedy, but in the grand scheme of things - it's just another Noble institution corrupted and destroyed by Marxism.



Assume that it goes through, will it have any effect? Barely. People will still be able to watch online.

So, given that there have been Conservative governments since 2010 (Cameron), how has this "woke-ness" come about, or these insidious Marxists managed to take control ?

[TheDemonLord]

So, given that there have been Conservative governments since 2010 (Cameron), how has this "woke-ness" come about, or these insidious Marxists managed to take control ?

The short answer is Universities.

The longer answer is more complex:

Firstly - Cameron, May, Boris - none of them have really been very 'Conservative'. Cameron loved to spend, May was a wet blanket, and Bojo is a bit of a Greenie. Not exactly Thatcher or Churchill esque Conservatives.

Secondly - there is an issue of Vigilance - There have been those of us that first saw the Schisms waaaaay back in 2011 (that's when ElevatorGate* happened) and we've seen an increasing encroachment, with each victory the Woke brigade has grown bolder and bolder and managed to subvert more and more institutions. Some conservatives have started to realize this and you could consider Trump part of the start of the pushback, with the likes of Ron De Santis as well in the US, Kemi Badendoch in the UK and Saint Seymour in NZ.

You could also argue that the creep of Political Correctness realistically started in the 1980s, it was confined mostly to Academia at that point, it started to get it's tendrils into society in the 90s - but then 2 key events happened: The internet and 9/11 - Those two firstly gave people a place to interact with other like-minded folks (the internet) but more importantly gave people a sense that there very existence was under attack (9/11).

This Galvanisation of ideals and principles is actually one of the things that Antonio Gramsci (Italian Communist and whose work heavily influenced the Postmodern movement, Radical Feminism, Critical Theory, Critical Race Theory - basically all the Marxist shite) warned against - that a frontal assault would merely result in people closing ranks around their ideals which leads to the next part:

Thirdly - there is an issue of Liberal principles. This is perhaps the most insidious and effective part. Consider Free speech - I'm quite a vocal proponent of Free Speech, which means I must support the right to speak of those who I wish would not speak. There are those on the 'woke' side who know this, they know what our principles are and they deliberately exploit them. Gramsci referred to this as a 'War of Position' whereby you make an appeal to the Liberal Value in order to subvert the Liberal value.

Perhaps the most clear example of this currently is Diversity Inclusion and Equity (DIE!), The Liberal value is that was don't want to discriminate - and so the Closet Communist says: 'Well, there's 20% of your population that are X colour, yet they only make up 5% of this prestigious industry, that means there *must* be discrimination somewhere, you don't want to Discriminate, don't you? That's wrong! So we'll just hire a few people based on their Race and not their qualifications".

Most people find it hard to argue against that, because of their Liberal values - they don't want to be (or seen to be) a Racist, yet the correct response is to re-assert the Liberal value 'I don't see their Skin Colour, I only see their qualifications'. Again this has roots in Gramsci's theories.

Fourthly - Conquests laws (or possibly O'Sullivans laws) - Any institution not explicitly right-wing, eventually becomes Left Wing. We've got numerous prominent examples of this - the BBC for example or the ACLU (Once had Jews defending Neo-Nazis right to speak, now are fully onboard with Cancel-Culture). HR Departments, Education (both university and the wider system), Marketing departments etc. In my industry - most of the people-facing roles are very left-wing, whereas most of the Engineering/Technical side is more evenly balanced.

Fifthly - Yuri Bezmenov described how this process used to be instigated by the KGB over a period of 20 years (isn't that an interesting number...) to generate internal discord in a country that would eventually lead to a Communist revolution. It's a slow creep, first in the Universities, then those people go out into the world and after a time they attain positions of power and influence and then they are able to use that to hire more like-minded individuals, which solidifies their world view (if everyone in the Office thinks XYZ...). Those who stay in the Universities teach the next batch of students (who will inevitably take the ideas one step further than the last intake) and so on and so forth.

When you have gone so-far left in the University, that someone can re-write parts of Mein Kampf, replacing Jew with 'Straight White man' and it gets accepted for Publishing....

Lastly - To give the Devils their Due - they are very clever. Not as clever as they might think, but they are Clever, they've got a long academic tradition, they've got successful ways and means to mount their attacks and most of all:

“The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance,”

And most of us aren't being very Vigilant.

[Berries]

I blame Thatcher.

[TheDemonLord]

I blame Thatcher.

She was calling out Feminism and it's Marxist roots back in the 80s.

She wouldn't have tolerated any of this shit.

I blame Marx and continental Philosophy.

[jellywrestler]

News reports a couple of protesters (which in all probability means a whole lot more, as yet untested) have tested positive for C19 - wonder how they feel about having a virus that they claim does not exist. As they are unlikely to be vaccinated they may well get the serious version, in which case they will expect to go to hospital for treatment. This is where the Singapore approach would be warranted.

There will be a number there, last night it was reported 75 % of those in hospital in nz have been vaccinated so either way the proximity, numbers and length of time will mean it's a cess pit. Yet it is still not been declared a location of interest.
Can you imagine them telling you which malls picture theatres and vape shops they have visited, diligently?

What's worse is they put three very famous people, russell coutts and the lead singer of op shop at risk, and winnie peters too. (he's the one who cried out for masks a few months ago and then arse licked his way through there without wearing on the other day)
The good thing is, not one of the thousands of other very famous people in nz have been exposed, none of coutts crew, nor the rest of the op shop band so when they keel over, no pun intended re coutts, we will still have thousands of other very famous people.

Of all their banner waving, and belief that everyone is behind them that's all they could russell up.... Where's Chloe from wainiuomata and the Topp Twins when you need them?

[Berries]

She wouldn't have tolerated any of this shit.

Was just picturing her and Jacinda having a fight with Crusher holding the towel.

Didn't they use to have jelly wrestling on Taranaki Street?