Putin

[Pursang]

“Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion.
Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.
He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.”

John Stuart Mill, inaugural address at the University of St. Andrews, 1867.


Granted, in Tsarist Russia, the USSR and in Putin's current kleptofacist state lying is universal, from the leader down to the lowest peasant pleb's child.
The silliest and most dangerous thing to ever do is "Tell the Truth". To be able to live in a society of continuous 'Life or Death' lies for many, many generations would require mental contortions likely produce permanent injuries (i.e. Inter-generational Trauma.) Wholesale consumption of vodka will numb the pain, but it would be interesting to see a study of the extent of fetal alcohol syndrome in the population.

Simply removing Putin will not solve the problem. Parliament + Bureaucracy + Intelligence Services + Military + Diplomats + Business + Media + Education + 144 million Vodka soaked, brain dead citizens who unquestioningly accept and believe and act as instructed on the whole Bull Shit narrative.

The place is rotten to the core. It will take generations of remedial therapy to turn Russia into a viable humanistic society.

[george formby]

“Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion.
Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.
He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.”

John Stuart Mill, inaugural address at the University of St. Andrews, 1867.

Here is a link to quotes from a man who truly knows the meaning of silence and doing nothing.

Elie Wiesel

I have his book "Night" on the bookshelf, written about his experience in Auschwitz and Buchenwald. Horrific reading.

And here we are today...

[pritch]

How could you live outside of Russia for any length of time and still stubbornly stick to the party line, when your own eyes and ears Scream the truth all around you!

The only Ukrainian I know is of Russian descent and he originally supported the invasion. I've avoided discussing it with him lately so I don't know his current views.

Historically 'descendants' can be a problem, to a large extent the IRA were funded by American people of Irish descent sending cash to Ireland motivated by warm fuzzies. Nobody since great grandad had lived in Ireland, likely no living member of the family had even been there, but they supported the cause.

Similarly with India where there are a number of different groups with grievances simmering away. These groups receive funds from their expats living overseas.

Absence makes the heart grow fonder? Especially if you can support the cause with no danger to yourself.

[caseye]

The only Ukrainian I know is of Russian descent and he originally supported the invasion. I've avoided discussing it with him lately so I don't know his current views.

Historically 'descendants' can be a problem, to a large extent the IRA were funded by American people of Irish descent sending cash to Ireland motivated by warm fuzzies. Nobody since great grandad had lived in Ireland, likely no living member of the family had even been there, but they supported the cause.

Similarly with India where there are a number of different groups with grievances simmering away. These groups receive funds from their expats living overseas.

Absence makes the heart grow fonder? Especially if you can support the cause with no danger to yourself.

Do us/me a favour, go ask him how he feels now.
I understand exactly what you've said above and can see how it works, but us sitting on our hands and allowing that sort of thinking is doing us, no favours.
I'd move heaven and earth, I'd pay, if they agreed to go,to get a non believer out of NZ and over the to Ukraine, if it mean't they saw the realities of their old countries operation!

[Pursang]

Here is a link to quotes from a man who truly knows the meaning of silence and doing nothing.

Elie Wiesel

These 2 are particularly relevant today:

“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.”

“Sometimes we must interfere. When human lives are endangered, when human dignity is in jeopardy, national borders and sensitivities become irrelevant. Wherever men or women are persecuted because of their race, religion, or political views, that place must—at that moment—become the center of the universe.”

[pritch]

Do us/me a favour, go ask him how he feels now.

His wife counsels against that. His people were originally from Crimea, there are still family there. He talks to his grandad sometimes, apparently g'dad was happy when Russia annexed Crimea. Of course the old feller will know SFA about what's currently happening in Ukraine because his news comes from Russia.

[TheDemonLord]

“Sometimes we must interfere. When human lives are endangered, when human dignity is in jeopardy, national borders and sensitivities become irrelevant. Wherever men or women are persecuted because of their race, religion, or political views, that place must—at that moment—become the center of the universe.”

So, The British Empire was a good thing then?

[Pursang]

So, The British Empire was a good thing then?

Not sure I understand the relevance??... Crimean War (1854)?, WW1. & WW2? (Maybe not the Boer war)

But anyway, B.E. was certainly a damn sight better than all the Russian ones!

Offspring of the British Empire generally seem to have 'prospered' better than those of contemporaries, say: Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch, French, German, Belgian, Ottoman......

Back to Ukraine & Putin.

[Pursang]

[Pursang]

Maxim Machine Gun - Delivering Deadly Kisses for 112 years.
.


So, Ukraine is reported to have 35,000 of these in warehouses.
Bit heavy for modern style offensive warfare, but still a great defensive tool.
Will not fail you, unless you run out of ammunition, or water to cool the barrel.
(You can even use piss in it, in a pinch.)

If you didn't watch the documentary in post #262, here is the link again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDd8NFftuXI
I'm more into history than guns, but this was well done!

[pete376403]

Maxim Machine Gun - Delivering Deadly Kisses for 112 years..
[
So, Ukraine is reported to have 35,000 of these in warehouses.
Bit heavy for modern style offensive warfare, but still a great defensive tool.
Will not fail you, unless you run out of ammunition, or water to cool the barrel.
(You can even use piss in it, in a pinch.)

If you didn't watch the documentary in post #262, here is the link again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDd8NFftuXI
I'm more into history than guns, but this was well done!

If you saw the excellent movie "Enemy at the Gate" you would have seen these being used by the NKVD to encourage the soldiers to keep moving forward.

[Swoop]

The Harold reports that the bulk of Russians living in NZ are suitably ashamed and embarressed and doing what they can to let their Ukranian neighbous know, they don't agree with Putin. While a small minority belive Phu-tin is their hero and will make Russia great again, all that he does is OK.

I'm currently working with two Russians. One of them is a total fan of Dictator Putin and believes everything coming out of his mouth. Sadly I see my workmate watching RT "news" (bullshit propaganda network) and refusing to look at other sources of information (French TV is quite well balanced on their reporting).
On the other hand a couple of Hungarian workmates have different views, like "Poo-tin? He's fucked in the head!"


The economic damage to Russia will take decades to recover from.

[release_the_bees]

I also work with a couple of Russians. The one guy who has discussed the topic openly said that he hopes Putin gets assassinated.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[Pursang]

Moscow Struck and destroyed by Ukrainian missile attack!!

No, not the city, (Yet), but the warship, Moskva, former ('til today) flagship of the Black Sea fleet.
The same warship the Snake island defenders told to go fuck itself!



This is a big deal as this ship was responsible for air, sea, and missile protection of the smaller Russian missile launching frigates, etc.
Little chance now of a sea assault on Odesa and no sea protection for Crimea when Ukraine is ready to take it back.

[Pursang]

Putin's Undies!