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Thread: The Ukraine Invasion.

  1. #76
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    https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018867728

    Kim Hill interviewed a kiwi called Jordan OBrien today who is fighting in Ukraine. Very interesting. Ex NZDF, exPMC
    I thought elections were decided by angry posts on social media. - F5 Dave

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    Private military contractors.... previously known as mercenaries.

    I wonder if a journalist will ever question jacinda or the greens about how they feel about former NZ defence trained personnel operating as guns for hire?
    While the current conflict lands them on right side of public opinion there will no doubt be other skirmishes where involvement could be morally questionable....
    What is their true standing in the modern political arena
    It just live the irony of how it clashes with the lefts anti gun agenda and anti private enterprise, I expect they file the appropriate tax returns ;p
    Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket - Eric Hoffer

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by R650R View Post
    Private military contractors.... previously known as mercenaries.

    I wonder if a journalist will ever question jacinda or the greens about how they feel about former NZ defence trained personnel operating as guns for hire?
    While the current conflict lands them on right side of public opinion there will no doubt be other skirmishes where involvement could be morally questionable....
    What is their true standing in the modern political arena
    It just live the irony of how it clashes with the lefts anti gun agenda and anti private enterprise, I expect they file the appropriate tax returns ;p
    He was a PMC in Iraq prior to COVID rearing its head.

    If you actually listened to the interview he asnwers your questions. Since being a mercenary for a foreign government is a crime in this country, he thought it wise to make enquiries before he went. The answers he received from the Police and various government departments suggested he'd be within the law.
    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

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    Quote Originally Posted by R650R View Post
    A nice moments of reasoned sanity there. You can bet the Russians will prob never even receive or acknowledge her comment. She’s too young to remember the NZ butter/Lada fiasco....

    Russia won’t invade anyway. There troops on border are like patched gang members sitting in a car in street while the prospects go do dirty work and collect debts.
    There has been substantial internal skirmishes going on for a long time by rebel groups, many think Ukraine really is still pretty much Russia absent post Cold War changes. Funny how when yanks do same with cia interfering in other countries no one says anything...,,
    Quote Originally Posted by R650R View Post
    What an amazing guy this Zelensky chap is from comedian to winning a war against Russia.
    Maybe after Trumps second term we could have Chris Rock or Dave Chappell running America.
    Jimmy Carr could do nice job of UK and perhaps Usulla Carlson could replace Jacinda.
    Keep up the great work Zelensky I think he should be present of the new post war European superstate that will replace the inept UN.

    Quote Originally Posted by R650R View Post
    An interesting angle on why the west is so reluctant to properly step up to the mark with real assistance, articulated on another website....

    Apparentky with Russia’s new superior air defence weapons they are petrified of their flagship f35 “ stealth” fighters being shot down among other technical issues.
    It seems a lot of the modern gear mightn’t do what’s says on the sides of the pretty packaging box.....
    This kind of meshes well with words of the Tornado pilot whose book I mentioned elsewhere. When they went to gulf war they knew Saddam had heaps of half decent gear but whete horrified at just how much of a fight the air defence systems put up...,

    Also it’s kinda ironic that modern nations are in effect virtue signalling by listing the specific amounts of what they are sending. Do politicians realise it’s a war and not just a Facebook status update for nation
    Like your idol Taylor Swift, your posts don't date very well.....



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    Now obvious caveats that I don't know the sources leanings - but this is something I saw that I thought was interesting:



    In short - an armored column got stuck in a Minefield and then hammered by Artillery.

    Amongst the vehicles damaged/destroyed is a Leopard 2 A6 (or at least supposedly is) that has been taken out.

    This is interesting because in the West - with the dominance of tanks like Abrams and Challenger 2 - we've gotten a bit complacent. I mean Abrams, Leopard 2 and Challenger 2 have all remained on the same basic chassis since their design. Sure, there have been armor packages, gun upgrades and Systems upgrades (and some of those upgrades are significant improvements) - but we are all running Tanks that were designed in the 70s and built in the 80s.

    And in the first Gulf War, they ran roughshod over the Iraqi tanks and in subsequent combat operations Western Tanks have done very well and have an aura of 'invincibility' about them - but seeing a relatively modern Leopard 2 A6 get destroyed is hopefully the wake-up call that the west needs that against 'simple' tactics (Minefield + Arty has been around for over 100 years...), our 'modern' tanks are still vulnerable.

    Anyways - not bigging up the russians, not poo-pooing the Ukrainians - just talking Tanks.
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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    Now obvious caveats that I don't know the sources leanings - but this is something I saw that I thought was interesting:



    In short - an armored column got stuck in a Minefield and then hammered by Artillery.

    Amongst the vehicles damaged/destroyed is a Leopard 2 A6 (or at least supposedly is) that has been taken out.

    This is interesting because in the West - with the dominance of tanks like Abrams and Challenger 2 - we've gotten a bit complacent. I mean Abrams, Leopard 2 and Challenger 2 have all remained on the same basic chassis since their design. Sure, there have been armor packages, gun upgrades and Systems upgrades (and some of those upgrades are significant improvements) - but we are all running Tanks that were designed in the 70s and built in the 80s.

    And in the first Gulf War, they ran roughshod over the Iraqi tanks and in subsequent combat operations Western Tanks have done very well and have an aura of 'invincibility' about them - but seeing a relatively modern Leopard 2 A6 get destroyed is hopefully the wake-up call that the west needs that against 'simple' tactics (Minefield + Arty has been around for over 100 years...), our 'modern' tanks are still vulnerable.

    Anyways - not bigging up the russians, not poo-pooing the Ukrainians - just talking Tanks.
    Douglas MacGregor (battle of 73 easting fame gulf war) has articulated in many of his interviews that the real issue is the Russians have mastered opsint or basically the art of integrating battlefield real time surveillance communication direct to fire control centres.
    Apparently it’s not something they were into before but they worked out how the Ukraine was hammering them early on and adopted it.
    The worry in the west is that we have gone opposite way and have too many decision makers in chain of command.
    But yes it’s interesting how it’s transformed from close quarters guerilla warfare almost to ww1 style stand-off artillery/ missile bombardment warfare.
    And if you translate the same to naval warfare it shows that all those expensive aircraft carriers are just great big targets except when beating up a third world dictator.
    It doesn’t matter how flash a weapon system is if the enemy knows where it is and it’s in firing range. Hence the reason why the Russians are so upset about the prospect of a nato/USA missile base on their border, it’s the Cuban missile crisis in reverse. This time we don’t have a competent negotiator like Kennedy in charge.
    Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket - Eric Hoffer

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    eek Ok, a grainy image of a tractor or a tank (depending on who you ask) wow

    Isn't the biggest concern at the moment that countries Iran, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Cuba, Democratic Republic of Congo, Comoros, Gabon, Kazakhstan, Egypt, Argentina, Bangladesh, Guinea-Bissau and Indonesia are potentially joining Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa to trade oil in Chinese currency, undermining the US dollar's hold on oil sanctions against countries like Russia?

    You can all watch Russia drag its feet invading Ukraine, but if China (and Russia) has been taking over the global reserve currency in the background, maybe you've been duped by distraction?

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonicorn View Post
    You can all watch Russia drag its feet invading Ukraine, but if China (and Russia) has been taking over the global reserve currency in the background, maybe you've been duped by distraction?
    I'm not sure you could say Russia is dragging their feet.

    I mean, case in point, the sinking of the Moskva - loosing a capital ship (regardless of which Navy) is always a massive morale dent. I'm reminded of the sinking of HMS Hood from WW2 and the orders to Sink the Bismark! that came after it.

    I don't doubt that there are other things going on (there always is) and it's entirely possible that China is making hay whilst the sun is shining.

    But yeah - Russia dragging their feet? I think Russia was over-confident, their equipment/maintenance has been shown up for being corrupt, their Logistics weren't up to snuff.

    The Ukrainians on the other hand - putting aside all the nice and shiny weapons the West is supplying them with, are putting up a hell of a good fight.
    Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoonicorn View Post
    Isn't the biggest concern at the moment that countries Iran, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Cuba, Democratic Republic of Congo, Comoros, Gabon, Kazakhstan, Egypt, Argentina, Bangladesh, Guinea-Bissau and Indonesia are potentially joining Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa to trade oil in Chinese currency, undermining the US dollar's hold on oil sanctions against countries like Russia?

    You can all watch Russia drag its feet invading Ukraine, but if China (and Russia) has been taking over the global reserve currency in the background, maybe you've been duped by distraction?
    It’s only a concern if you haven’t been paying attention to world geo politics for last 20 years. USA has made many of the same mistakes of the Roman’s, over extending themselves with too many expensive foreign operations.
    Russia and China have openly being buying gold (real money) in large volume for ages for obvious eventual purposes. Gaddafi was taken out because he was about to create an Arab gold based currency with Iran and eventually others.
    For too long we have thought we know best and it’s our way or the Highway…
    The real scare thing is that India (quite unstable) will first overtake China as the Emminrnt economic power but eventually Nigeria is set to be a powerhouse purely from the sheer numbers their population is forecast to reach in 50 years time.
    When the dust settles BRICS will be a good thing because all the major nations are cultures of trading for mutual gain, not trading with lots of rules to force a monopoly
    Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket - Eric Hoffer

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    I'm reminded of the sinking of HMS Hood from WW2 and the orders to Sink the Bismark! that came after it.
    The Hood was part of the fleet that was already tasked with sinking the Bismarck, it was only after the sinking they expanded the orders to all available vessels
    "If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."


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