The Ukraine Invasion.

[Stylo]

Guess this is an overdue topic.

Here's a starter. Not looking good.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/...tion-corridors

[george formby]

The two ii's in the the title Invasion. Spell check, my bad. Putin sems to be the new Butcher of Ukraine.

Sems?

Ewes not havin a good spellin day.

[MD]

Deja vu 1939. It's OK Guys Hitler has only invaded Poland and he says he won't go any further, what a relief this will be over in a week.

I know NATO have a scary tough choice. Get directly involved and risk all out WWIII or sit back, do nothing and watch innocent people getting blown up and hope the madman attacking them gets bored and decides to go fishing instead or play tennis. Putin is doing this because he is betting on NATO being the coward. No one wants this escalated. No one (apart from Putin) wants a war in Europe. The news at night is distressing to watch. I have a riding buddy who is Greek, his Wife Polish. Both speak constantly with their relatives back in Europe and the fear of all out war is palatable.

My 2 cents worth is NATO must help and provide the air support President Zelenskyy is asking for otherwise we have learnt nothing from history. As the often misquoted saying goes- all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

[george formby]

Deja vu 1939. It's OK Guys Hitler has only invaded Poland and he says he won't go any further, what a relief this will be over in a week.

I know NATO have a scary tough choice. Get directly involved and risk all out WWIII or sit back, do nothing and watch innocent people getting blown up and hope the madman attacking them gets bored and decides to go fishing instead or play tennis. Putin is doing this because he is betting on NATO being the coward. No one wants this escalated. No one (apart from Putin) wants a war in Europe. The news at night is distressing to watch. I have a riding buddy who is Greek, his Wife Polish. Both speak constantly with their relatives back in Europe and the fear of all out war is palatable.

My 2 cents worth is NATO must help and provide the air support President Zelenskyy is asking for otherwise we have learnt nothing from history. As the often misquoted saying goes- all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

I found this to be an interesting perspective and little discussed. Get the UN to move.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/progr...ion-of-ukraine

[FJRider]

... My 2 cents worth is NATO must help and provide the air support President Zelenskyy is asking for otherwise we have learnt nothing from history. As the often misquoted saying goes- all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

It may not be as simple as that.

A “NATO decision” is the expression of the collective will of all 30 member countries ... since all decisions of NATO are taken by consensus.

POLITICAL - NATO promotes democratic values and enables members to consult All NATO decisions are made by consensus, after discussion and consultation among member countries and cooperate on defense and security-related issues to solve problems, build trust and, in the long run, prevent conflict.

MILITARY - NATO is committed to the peaceful resolution of disputes. If diplomatic efforts fail, it has the military power to undertake crisis-management operations. These are carried out under the collective defense clause of NATO's founding treaty - Article 5 of the Washington Treaty The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security . or under a United Nations mandate, alone or in cooperation with other countries and international organizations.

My two cents worth is ... NATO will not take action until a member country is attacked. They may well be "On the ground" ... but until a NATO member border is crossed/attacked ...



NATO Member Countries.

https://www.nato.int/nato-welcome/index.html

[pritch]

I found this to be an interesting perspective and little discussed. Get the UN to move.

Problem is it's up to the Security Council. Russia has a permanent seat and the power of veto.

[george formby]

I found this to be an interesting perspective and little discussed. Get the UN to move.

Problem is it's up to the Security Council. Russia has a permanent seat and the power of veto.

Unless the rest of the UN has consensus. IIRC.

A few member nations will just keep saying niet.

[husaberg]

Unless the rest of the UN has consensus. IIRC.

A few member nations will just keep saying niet.

The UN security council works on the premise it has to be unanimous, Russia can just veto any decision which included saying "it was poor form old chap."
to be fair, the US pulls the same shit with vetos only less often.


https://www.un.org/press/en/2022/sc14809.doc.htm

[FJRider]

Unless the rest of the UN has consensus. IIRC.

A few member nations will just keep saying niet.

If Russia is vetoing a UN Security Council resolution on Ukraine ... the 15-member body will vote again to call a special session of the entire 193-member UN General Assembly.

When a resolution goes to vote in the General Assembly ... none of the permanent five members can use their veto. However ... unlike resolutions passed in the Security Council ... these are non-binding on member states.

[R650R]

It seems Ukraine was not without societal problems before the war. Great care is going to be needed afterwards as there will be a lot of people with weapons who probably shouldn’t have access to them.... Could be Afghanistan mkiii
Maybe that’s why the west is reluctant to intervene as it would be to their advantage to balkanise ukraine into micro states where its easier to install a puppet to regime that could be a new nato client/military’s base while still giving Russia a technical bit of breathing space by letting it have the eastern provinces as independent states.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/3...ope-and-beyond

Couple of interesting BBC docos over the years, best watch before they get deleted

First one from 8 years ago

[R650R]

BBC news three years ago

[R650R]

What an amazing guy this Zelensky chap is from comedian to winning a war against Russia.
Maybe after Trumps second term we could have Chris Rock or Dave Chappell running America.
Jimmy Carr could do nice job of UK and perhaps Usulla Carlson could replace Jacinda.
Keep up the great work Zelensky I think he should be present of the new post war European superstate that will replace the inept UN.

[pritch]

What an amazing guy this Zelensky chap is from comedian to winning a war against Russia.

A comedian yes but he's got a law degree, a very common qualification among politicians.

[pritch]

It seems Ukraine was not without societal problems before the war. Great care is going to be needed afterwards as there will be a lot of people with weapons who probably shouldn’t have access to them.... Could be Afghanistan mkiii

That's a different concern to the one I've seen expressed. There will be many Ukrainians who have lost a lot, possibly lost everything, they may want vengeance. Some could even have a Russian passport, some fairly heavy weaponry, and a desire for vengeance.

[TheDemonLord]

A comedian yes but he's got a law degree, a very common qualification among politicians.

Doesn't that tell you alot about the problems with our Politicians...