Waka Kotahi - dont have a clue

[Berries]

But, but, you're making sense!

Well, I hate to play the devils advocate but I am not so sure.

We all know the forestry industry is dangerous. It's a job that most of us don't participate in so I am pretty sure I won't die in a logging incident. Pretty sure I won't murder anyone or indeed be murdered either and as I don't know which end of the gun is which I won't be fighting in the Ukraine anytime soon. Perhaps I will make it to a grand old age or my past will catch up with me and I will die an early death due to some self inflicted medical reason. The most dangerous thing I do these days is share the road with all you pricks.

I agree that you can't fix "inattention/fatigue/incompetence" without a massive effort, but it could be fixed without a general restriction on free movement if everyone just took a step back and looked at things a bit more critically. Pretty sure nobody actually wants to die in a crash, it can be quite a traumatic way to shuffle off to the cemetery, but too many people ride/drive without giving the consequences much thought. Show them the consequences, explain the physics and eventually, perhaps, we will all be on the same page. At the moment it is very much them and us and it is only going to get worse as the screws are turned on speed limits across the country, particularly if that appears to be the extent of what is being done on the Road to Zero.

[rastuscat]

We all expect road deaths to happen. They are a fact, they happen.

But we each think it wont happen to us.

If we each thought it might happen to us, perhaps Vision Zero would be an easier sell, as people would see a reason to change their behaviour.

But as long as few, if any, think it might happen to them, few, if any, see a reason to change their driving behaviour.

Cheers, optimism bias. You bastard.

[pritch]

We all expect road deaths to happen. They are a fact, they happen.

But we each think it wont happen to us.

If we each thought it might happen to us, perhaps Vision Zero would be an easier sell, as people would see a reason to change their behaviour.

But as long as few, if any, think it might happen to them, few, if any, see a reason to change their driving behaviour.

Cheers, optimism bias. You bastard.

That would probably apply to the LCD type motorists. It should not apply to motorcyclists. We all know people who have been seriously injured or died. Some through no fault of their own, others who perhaps because of a momentary lapse contributed to their own demise.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

[Berries]

You should watch the latest dashcam video R666 posted for some motorcyclists who don't think that way.

And this one.

Only just noticed he was indicating left at the same time. Always best to keep them guessing when you ride like a twat.

And let me just put the gospel here as well -

[pritch]

You should watch the latest dashcam video R666 posted for some motorcyclists who don't think that way.

And this one.

Only just noticed he was indicating left at the same time. Always best to keep them guessing when you ride like a twat.

I used the word "should." There's one born every minute.

[pete376403]

We all expect road deaths to happen. They are a fact, they happen.

But we each think it wont happen to us..

I completely expect it to happen to me, especially when out on the bike. So I take every precaution I can. So far that course of action has worked, one day it might not. Possibly the difference between riding and driving is, that when on the bike, a degree of concentration is required or the bike falls over, whereas the car is pretty stable and contains a myriad of distractions that the operator can amuse him/her self with while ignoring the main task. Further to that, even the most clapped out Jap import shitbox driven by todays yoof is capable of speeds that the likes of me, who learned to drive in humber 10 / ford prefect and the like, could only dream of when I was at that time of life when mortality was an unknown concept

[Laava]

You cannot legislate to achieve zero deaths, not for want of trying, it is just the people puzzle.
To expect everyone to not speed, wear seatbelts, not use cellphones and drive using common sense, courtesy and concentration is so far removed from reality it is almost fruitless trying. Here in the far north, everytime I go up to doubtless bay there is another crashed/burnt out wreck on the side of the road. Sitting in a cafe in mangonui yesterday it would not be exaggerating to say only half the people driving past are wearing their seatbelts. And you can be sure it is no-one in the car incl kids. And half of these are quite clearly not roadworthy cars. The std of driving up there is prob the worst I have seen anywhere in NZ. The cops are few and far between and genuinely have better things to do for the most part. I have never seen a vehicle checkpoint up there. Prob cos they dont have the manpower to process all the people they would have to prevent from driving on. It's a bit depressing tbh but sadly I am sure there are other places in NZ just as bad.

[rastuscat]

You should watch the latest dashcam video R666 posted for some motorcyclists who don't think that way.

And this one.

Only just noticed he was indicating left at the same time. Always best to keep them guessing when you ride like a twat.

That crash movement has featured in my Ride Forever courses since I started 6 years ago. I attended so many of those crashes when in a blue suit it was just beyond a joke.

It happens approximately every month in Chch, someone overtaking a left turning vehicle getting nailed by someone coming out of that side road.

Damn, some things are so predictable, surely we can as riders anticipate them, and thus avoid them.

[onearmedbandit]

Damn, some things are so predictable, surely we can as riders anticipate them, and thus avoid them.

Some humans do, some don't. I didn't say 'riders' on purpose, because it's human behaviour, not rider specific. It's how we address that type of human behaviour that is the issue.

[R650R]

That crash movement has featured in my Ride Forever courses since I started 6 years ago. I attended so many of those crashes when in a blue suit it was just beyond a joke.

It happens approximately every month in Chch, someone overtaking a left turning vehicle getting nailed by someone coming out of that side road.

Damn, some things are so predictable, surely we can as riders anticipate them, and thus avoid them.

I think the problem is driver licensing is rule centric rather than consequence focused. We give a person a licence if they demonstrate knowledge of the rules.
Sometimes I’m involved teaching people how to use equipment that can kill them. Part one is these are the things you must do every time or you never get to do anything ever again, being dead and all.
My favourite safety sign is an entrapment style stick person logo with the words this machine can kill you and it will hurt lots the entire time you are dying.

Just imagine a driver test where you had to estimate the response time of an ambulance (and hence pain relief) to location x. How long have you to live with major arterial bleed. Bit like those silly new acc home injury ads where they have kinda messed up the delivery of the message a bit

[Gremlin]

I had a near miss near Clevedon last year. NZTA had already been through, dropped West Rd from 100kph to 80kph a while ago, now the "dangerous" section was 60kph. So probably in their mind, much safer.
I'm starting the climb up the hill from Clevedon, thought about it, yeah OK, I'll drop to 70kph indicated, so I'm mid 60s, crawling along.
A car comes around the corner up ahead (it's blind from my side, first decent right hander for me), and runs over the centre line in front of me.

So because I'd slowed down, I was in a different place on the road and no kissy kissy with the car... but this is simply pure luck, he could have been later, I could have been earlier. Did lowering the limit to 60kph make a tangible difference there? Nope...

It's lovely for paper pushers to have this goal of zero deaths... they can barely lower the deaths per year in what, a decade or more, and in 25 odd years they want 300+ to zero? I guess they put zero because no-one has the guts to say incidents happen, we'd be happy at (random number) 100, giving us a better per capita rate than equivalent countries? You literally have people that struggle to steer a car (or burst into tears when it rains - testing officer told me of his own experience), and you expect the absolute best possible outcome?

[Berries]

Damn, some things are so predictable, surely we can as riders anticipate them, and thus avoid them.

I would not use the royal we for that twat, he was not anticipating anything. By all means take yourself out but your pillion as well?

Should have his class 6 revoked, if he had one.

[rastuscat]

I would not use the royal we for that twat, he was not anticipating anything. By all means take yourself out but your pillion as well?

Should have his class 6 revoked, if he had one.

Yes, the gene pool needs to have that one removed. Darwinism in action.

[SaferRides]

My 5c. Zero deaths is so obviously unattainable that most people wll just switch off. I have.

It's scary to see how much the road toll has increased this year. 128 to the end of April, compared to 106 last year.



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[jellywrestler]

My 5c. Zero deaths is so obviously unattainable that most people wll just switch off. I have.

It's scary to see how much the road toll has increased this year. 128 to the end of April, compared to 106 last year.



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foreigners, never us of course