Low personal B.M.E.P.
Originally Posted by FLUB
They're now discovering how much dead rat the National Party are prepared to eat to get back in power.
If the Nat caucus hadn't agreed to all this as part of the price of coalition it would have gone nowhere.
Put the blame where it belongs.
Geriatric hoon
Yesterday I saw the suggestion that NZ doesn't have a race problem. It has a Seymour problem.
Luxon's inexperience in Parliament gave Seymour too much say. It's hard to imagine John Key getting sucked into a shit show like this. Not that I greatly admire Key but...
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
Low personal B.M.E.P.
Luxon simply saw " If i agree to this I can be Prime Minister"
And the rest of the Nat caucus saw a rosy future opening up with opportunities to make money everywhere.
Forum whore
Yeah that's not true though.
The Majestic Metal Wizard
The issue for many people is that the Treaty has been re-interpreted by Marxist academics, to forward their goal of decolonization - whether the wider NZ public know it or not.
Case in point - most people can look at a Treaty settlement for confiscated land and agree that this was wrong and that redress was needed.
Some people look at say the creation of 2degrees as a result of a Treaty Settlement on the EM spectrum and agree with it, others look at this with skepticism (Sort of like selling a painting to a 2nd hand shop, then later realizing it is valuable and wanting a percentage of the profits...)
But when it comes to the idea of Co-Governance, most people think that this is *not* what was meant or intended in the Treaty. Having separate legal system(s) and rules based on ancestry is not tenable.
There are other issues as well - such whether or not the Maori are indigenous and given the amount of intermingling - if your Mother was Pakeha and your Father was Maori - does that make you Maori or a Treaty person...
What Seymour has done is put a flagpole in the ground to stop the judicial activism that has been happening and draw attention to a problem.
The level of debate from the people opposing the Bill has been telling, from simple name-calling Seymour as a Racist, to claiming it will do things it wont, to the occassional bit of honesty that it stops the attempts at decolonization.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Kruger-Dunning Parts n Service
Yes this country has a problem with seeing more of other peopleÂ’s ideas. If Seymour has too much say with 9% of the vote then what do you say to the party that got 3% of vote???
Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket - Eric Hoffer
Forum whore
you either agree with seymore or you agree with the tattoo face baboon in the cowboy hat
Geriatric hoon
Yeah but Luxon didn't have to give Seymour much at all. Seymour wasn't going to turn down a chance to be in government.
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
Geriatric hoon
Compared to a lot of places it is. Things aren't perfect here but they are a lot worse elsewhere.
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
Forum whore
So we didn't have race issues before Seymour? Saying 'compared to a lot of places it is' doesn't negate the fact we do have race issues here, with or without Seymour.
Forum whore
Come on, get off the fence will you.
Well, this is awkward...
Is this really what’s happening, or is it just two sides in a negotiation trying to come to an agreement? There has to be give and take on both sides. Maori have every right to ask for whatever they want during the negotiating process. Putting a ‘flagpole in the ground’ at such a late stage in that process is not a good faith negotiating tactic, it’s exactly the opposite.
Moe: Well, I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I...I can't compete with that stuff.- The Simpsons
The Majestic Metal Wizard
Yes, it is really what is happening.
Te Pati Maori have even said themselves that they want to setup an entirely parallel and independant government.
Does that sound like Give and Take to you - does that sound like negotiating in good faith?
Their (Te Pati Maori and the various academics who are driving the protest) outcome is to keep the principles of the Treaty vague, so that they can continue to be misinterpreted to mean Co-Governance, in order to further drive the desired outcome of complete Decolonization - which is a Marxist idea - with the goal of undermining the West and ushering a Communist revolution.
To put it another way - you think the question being asked is something like does the Treaty protect deep sea fishing rights - and between us we can have a rational discussion as to whether or not that was the intention of the Treaty and whether the protections of ancestral hunting and fishing rights extends to commercial deep sea fishing.
The question that is really being asked is whether the Treaty can be used to further a revolutionary cause to undermine our Western style democracy.
I, for one, like food and do not want a Communist revolution.
Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress
Geriatric hoon
Now you are arguing with things I didn't write. As for Seymour we didn't have thousands of people marching on Parliament until he stired it up. If Luxon's telling the truth though it's all for nothing.
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
Forum whore
I trimmed your original post too much in my quote, I should've left the 'Seymour problem' part in it. I was disagreeing with the suggestion that NZ doesn't have a race problem, it has a Seymour problem. NZ, regardless of where we sit on the spectrum of racism, has a racism issue. Seymour has fuck all to do with that.
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