David Seymour

[TheDemonLord]

Trying to break this cycle. Educate the youngest generation in the benefits of NOT following what their parents did. However what do you do with the previous generations while getting the new one sorted - starve them while suggesting to the kids that they can avoid this fate? Out with the old, in with the new. Sounds a bit like Maos Great Leap Forward. Great role model for DS and Act.

Yeah.... I checked the ACT website - can't find the reference to Starving people...

His message on this:

We have businesses that need workers and we have people on the benefit who need jobs. We need to find a way to get both of them introduced to each other.

I don't know where this has come from, but I suspect it's a distortion of his statements that he wants everyone in NZ to have a job/working. It's an ideal to aim for - not an edict to go eliminate those who are making the stats look bad.

And look, Education to break the cycle is important, jobs are also important, opportunities are important - which is what I think he thinks ACTs focus should be.

[husaberg]

in Actsprevious suggestion The flat tax rate that ACT proposed was approximately 15% with no tax on the first $25,000 for those who opt out of state-provided accident, sickness and healthcare cover.

This weekend he unveiled a tax proposal that would see personal and company tax rates set at 17.5 percent — that’s a tax increase for people on lower incomes, and a tax cut for people on higher incomes.

Economists aren’t so sure about the plan — many say it's unfair and hits those on low income hardest. In fact, using Treasury’s modelling tool a flat tax of 17.5 percent would result in a tax increase for everyone earning less than $56,000.

Data from stats shows that close to 70 percent of income earners would be worse off under the ACT scheme.

New Zealand income earners are currently taxed at four rates. The first $14,000 people earn is taxed at 10.5 percent, the next lot of income up to $48,000 is taxed at 17.5 percent, and the next lot of income up to $70,000 is taxed at 30 percent. Any income above $70,000 is taxed at a rate of 33 percent.

Rimmers a smeghead

[MD]

What specifically, if you don't mind my asking?

It was a few years ago but essentially I recall they had a stupid approach along the lines that anyone who wanted a firearm should carry one anywhere, anyhow. Oh yeah and that has just worked out fucking fantastically in America.
Then they wanted to de-stablish my favororite Govt dept of all time , the Dept. of Conservation. They felt that people and farmers would just look after the environment fine without Govt oversight and guidelines. Piss off I love the beauty of our pristine country, rivers etc and DOC have done, despite pathetic budgets support, their best to preserve our nature and heritage. Ok I'm not a fan of 1080 but we don't seem to have a better alternative. Visit the Denniston Incline or Waiuta to see what a bloody amazing job DOC have done at preserving our history.
I am a licenced firearms holder and it needs to be controlled- strictly.

[JimO]

ACT profess to be Libertarians. They are anti any welfare. They wouldn't give a shit if people were starving.

DS bought a bunch of ACT MPs into Parliament with him last time. Have you ever heard a peep out of any of them? Dunno about you but I couldn't name a single one. He's got them on a tight rein. If they got to speak out people would realise how loopy ACT is.

when was the last time you heard anything from most of labours MPs, whats twiford up to now? still sniffing out anyone with a chinese sounding name

[TheDemonLord]

It was a few years ago but essentially I recall they had a stupid approach along the lines that anyone who wanted a firearm should carry one anywhere, anyhow. Oh yeah and that has just worked of fucking fantastically in America.

That must have been quite some time ago, and definitely before Nicole McKee joined ACT.

Then they wanted to de-stablish my favororite Govt dept of all time , the Dept. of Conservation. They felt that people and farmers would just look after the environment fine without Govt oversight and guidelines. Piss off I love the beauty of our pristine country, rivers etc and DOC have done, despite pathetic budgets support, their best to preserve our nature and heritage. Ok I'm not a fan of 1080 but we don't seem to have a better alternative. Visit the Denniston Incline or Waiuta to see what a bloody amazing job DOC have done at preserving our history.

I had a chat with other ACT voters, including some life-long farmers, the sentiment I heard from the voters was along the lines of:

"I'm sick of having people who have never set foot on a farm, with no real-world experience fresh out of university, setting rules and regulations that have unintended consequences" - it's possible that it was this sort of thinking that lead to what you read?

Now, for the most part I think DoC does a good job, I'm less impassioned on the 1080 subject, but from what I hear from others who are, I do firmly believe that a discussion about it's usage needs to be had and whether the alternatives are worth the cost(s) (both monetary and otherwise).

I've seen ACT talking about zero-ing each Government department at the start of a new year, which I think is one of those more hyperbolic policies, but it's point is to highlight how Government Bureaucracy always ratchets up.

I am a licenced firearms holder and it needs to be controlled- strictly.

I'm on board with the individually being vetted strictly (as that was causal to the Chch fuckwit getting his licence - proper procedures weren't followed), but once that vetting is done, I'm for less control.

That said - one idea that I raised with Nicole and with COLFO (as part of a discussion about Club Membership) - is that as a condition of maintaining a licence, you have to undergo a yearly safety check at your local club.

I want to be clear this isn't a fully formed policy - but the discussion was along the lines of - how do we make sure that individuals who have licences and are going through difficult times have a Whanau that can support them and stop them from doing something stupid? Shooting is by nature a very individual sport and there's a certain appeal to introverts to shooting - how do you get those people who shy away from society to engage in society?

[R650R]

It was a few years ago but essentially I recall they had a stupid approach along the lines that anyone who wanted a firearm should carry one anywhere, anyhow. Oh yeah and that has just worked of fucking fantastically in America.
....,
I am a licenced firearms holder and it needs to be controlled- strictly.

It’s syrictly controlled here in NZ and hasn’t stopped jack shit. We had a terrorist act, gang driveby shootings are now common place in news and not even all of it is reported anymore.
America has 330 million people and gun violence hasnt really made a dent in population, what’s been more dangerous is the China virus.... good case of perception vs reality.

It’s a pity there isn’t a way to see what America would look like if it had our nanny state pc laws and soft on crime approach....

[sugilite:Me]

It’s syrictly controlled here in NZ and hasn’t stopped jack shit.

Sorry to butt in with some inconvenient facts that run against your narrative....

[TheDemonLord]

Sorry to butt in with some inconvenient facts that run against your narrative....

All I'm going to say is that before Jacinda Ardern, I did not know anyone that had been shot at.

Firearm Crime under Jacinda has increased, especially Gang Crime.

To be fair, we still have a very low rate of Firearm Crime (not suicides, that your data includes - that's another issue) - if we look at Austria (who has a similar rate of Firearm murders, as per your data)

Their laws for what they call Category B:

Authorities shall issue license to any non-prohibited citizen of European Economic Area over 21 who has good reason (law stipulates self-defense at home as a good reason) which allows purchase of up to two handguns. Authorities may issue license to person below 21, but over 18, non-citizen of EEA or person seeking to own more than two handguns.[4] Since 2019 the autorities shall issue a license for up to 5 weapons after having a license for two weapons for 5 or more years.

Cat B being: Category B includes handguns, repeating shotguns and semi-automatic rifles;

So much more liberal than NZ's pre-Stalinda Laws, and yet - they are almost identical to us in terms of Firearm Crime.

Sorry to butt in with some inconvenient facts against your narrative

[sugilite:Me]

To be fair, we still have a very low rate of Firearm Crime (not suicides, that your data includes - that's another issue) - if we look at Austria (who has a similar rate of Firearm murders, as per your data)

Their laws for what they call Category B:



Cat B being: Category B includes handguns, repeating shotguns and semi-automatic rifles;

So much more liberal than NZ's pre-Stalinda Laws, and yet - they are almost identical to us in terms of Firearm Crime.:

And both countries well down the list. which goes against the op's gist of our gun laws are not working.
Thank you for your support of my narrative that they are working well enough to keep us down the bottom half of that list

[TheDemonLord]

And both countries well down the list. which goes against the op's gist of our gun laws are not working.
Thank you for your support of my narrative that they are working well enough to keep us down the bottom half of that list

If I was to say that our Crime rate was even lower than before Jacinda? Sure by global standards it's still very low, but not as low as it should be by New Zealand Standard. And remembering the 'tough new gun laws' were designed to 'stop crime'

And they haven't.

[sugilite:Me]

If I was to say that our Crime rate was even lower than before Jacinda? Sure by global standards it's still very low, but not as low as it should be by New Zealand Standard. And remembering the 'tough new gun laws' were designed to 'stop crime'

And they haven't.

And never will, but they do help. Kinda like the zero road death policy, in no way obtainable.
For some reason reminds me of what perdue said when asked what about rape babies in relation to the abortion debate. He said he would abolish rape in Texas. I wonder how that is going. About as likely as anti gun laws working 100% huh.

[TheDemonLord]

And never will, but they do help. Kinda like the zero road death policy, in no way obtainable.
For some reason reminds me of what perdue said when asked what about rape babies in relation to the abortion debate. He said he would abolish rape in Texas. I wonder how that is going. About as likely as anti gun laws working 100% huh.

It's noble to aim for a zero road toll - but it's not obtainable without extreme tyranny, and well - suffice to say you know my thoughts on the matter.

My point is that the new Gun Laws have not helped and the stats prove this.

[sugilite:Me]

It's noble to aim for a zero road toll - but it's not obtainable without extreme tyranny, and well - suffice to say you know my thoughts on the matter.

My point is that the new Gun Laws have not helped and the stats prove this.

I say give the new laws some time before proclaiming them ineffective. I'm comfortable with the new laws. I know you are not.

[TheDemonLord]

I say give the new laws some time before proclaiming them ineffective. I'm comfortable with the new laws. I know you are not.

When it comes to banning something, unless there's an immediate effect - then it was ineffective.

[pritch]

Sorry to butt in with some inconvenient facts that run against your narrative....

I can understand 650R's confusion. Well, some of it. The Press and opposition politicians are continually banging on about how the gangs are out of control and bemoaning all the crime. There is violence no doubt, and due to that arsehole Scotty from Marketing, we are receiving some violent gang exports from Australia.
Internationally we just don't rate as a violent country. In fact, according to the International Safety index 2022, only Iceland is safer than NZ.

You definitely would not get the impression from the hysterical media that we are rated second safest country on the planet.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...s-in-the-world