David Seymour

[F5 Dave]

Why don't you go back to your own country? You seem incapable of reasoned empathy of the fuckery your country folk have reined on the inhabitants.

[Katman]

Interesting points on the unified Maori front - I dont entirely agree with them per se, but I do find it interesting how quickly the NZ Political debate talks about Maori, forgetting that there are still deep divisions.

A prime example of those divisions is Tainui's conflict with Ngati Whatua over control of the Greater Auckland area.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/...f-at-eden-park

[nerrrd]

But isn't that why negotiations have been done with each iwi individually? The settlement process seems to chug along in the background regardless of who's in government, probably because they need people who understand the complexities involved.

Meanwhile on the national stage the various political parties are free to express their opinions, as are we all, everybody's got one. I, for instance, would like to see some genuine, non-partisan discussion around how to sort out our failing infrastructure, health care, energy, housing etc, but I'm not holding my breath. I like the fact that Seymour tends to talk about things like that, but he seems to me to be looking backwards at the same policies that have got us where we are now, just done slightly differently. I don't think that's going to help.

[TheDemonLord]

Why don't you go back to your own country? You seem incapable of reasoned empathy of the fuckery your country folk have reined on the inhabitants.

Well, firstly, England is barely English anymore (funny how the indigenous population argument only applies to Colonies and not the homeland - but I digress)

More importantly though:

Compared to what?

Reasoned Empathy - and FWIW, this argument really pisses me off:

Inter Tribal conflict here is an abridged version of that Utu that I mentioned

Over a thousand were believed to be slaughtered, with many bodies being cooked and eaten by the victors. Rather than be captured by the enemy, some Te Ātiawa women chose to throw themselves and their children off the cliff at Pukerangiora and onto the riverbed 100 metres below.

How many times has that happened since England fully established rule? Virtually none. That is one story, from 2 Tribes. There are hundreds of similar stories.

Slavery - Taurekareka. Just like every society (before the British) - if you were captured in combat - you were either Raped (women and girls old enough to bare children) Killed (The men and older Boys, Babies and Elderly) or forced into Slavery.

Life expectancy due to Modern Medicine.

etc.

I could go on - but let me ask you this - based on just those factors alone - there are far more Maori alive today than before the Europeans arrived (most widely accepted Estimate is around 100,000)

My 'reasoned empathy' as you tried to ridicule it - sees an end to inter-tribal war, increase in life expectancy, end of Slavery and a massive increase in the population.

And again - the point must be made - not all Maori agree with the likes of Te Pati Maori or their ulterior motives.

[TheDemonLord]

Meanwhile on the national stage the various political parties are free to express their opinions, as are we all, everybody's got one. I, for instance, would like to see some genuine, non-partisan discussion around how to sort out our failing infrastructure, health care, energy, housing etc, but I'm not holding my breath. I like the fact that Seymour tends to talk about things like that, but he seems to me to be looking backwards at the same policies that have got us where we are now, just done slightly differently. I don't think that's going to help.

That is a good argument.

In terms of Housing - the removal/revamp of the RMA is one of ACTs main policies - the main goal is to remove restrictions for people wanting to build. I have a number of friends who did new build houses - and the stories I have heard from them (these are not friends that run in the same circles or interact with each other) were all the same: They were stifled at every turn by the Council being dickheads over Plans and over RMA related things.

Energy - NZ has a choice to make - either we push for Wind and Solar (which do not seem to be all they are cracked up to be, even with advances in tech), Push for more Hydro (which has ecological concerns - some real, some imagined), Coal and Gas (with the pollution it causes) or we look at Nuclear. That said, if someone could hurry up and create a tidal based power generation system that was reliable - that would also be great for NZ.

Failing Infrastructure - There are two parts to this I feel - Government spending largesse on things that the government shouldn't be spending on (look at the last governments love of over-paid consultants delivering fuck all) and the red tape (see above on the RMA) to do anything.


Finally Health - this is an area that I think the Western World that isn't the US is in for a rude awakening. As we have improved our Medical technology - people are living longer and dare I say it, we are able to keep people alive artificially for longer. Conditions that 40 years ago would have resulted in someone dropping dead either immediately or in a matter of weeks are now able to live an extra 10-20 years with the right medication.

That has a cost. Now, quick aside, I am not trying to make an argument over the value of life or that everything should be measured in Dollars and Cents - but there is also a reality that goods and services must be paid for and that they have a cost and we cannot escape that fact.

In addition - that 10-20 years extra life, in the last 5 or so years, the healthcare costs start to exponentially increase. The UK in particular is having a struggle with the NHS constantly increasing its budgets by hundreds of millions of pounds, yet the average Brit is complaining that they are not seeing any real or meaningful increase in the level of care they get from the NHS.

Furthermore - as more conditions are discovered, the demands for treatment increases. As an example - 40 years ago a Man claiming to be a Women and wanting to have his bits lopped off and take Eastrogen would have been redirected to an insane asylum. Today, all those treatments and medical interventions are funded. Now - this is not a rant against Trans people (although there is a little bit of snark included) - it is simply a good example of a cost to provide socialized healthcare that has increased recently. And FWIW - if the difference between someone living a long and productive life as a contributing member of society is the cost of surgery and life-long hormone therapy vs them committing suicide, I pay the cost of their treatment gladly.

The US 'solves' this problem by externalizing health care costs to the individual via Medical Insurance - which is something I do not like, but as I see the same problems increasing everywhere else, it may be eventually we are forced to privatize Healthcare.

[sugilite:Me]

Well, with the greens hogging the limelight last year with their crime loving members showcasing their migrant abuse and high end shop lifting skills - Act is out of the gates early in 2025 raising the anti with having a sexual predator as their president - since removed.
I'm expecting Seymour to come out with a law amendment restricting the ridiculous amount of time politicians, celebrities and sports stars get name suppression in this country.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political...-long-advocate

Seymour did get a win today however, with Maori removing his microphone at his (brave) Waitangi speech. I feel this action was ill advised as now Seymour and his right wing cabal have a "See they did want people to hear the truth" trope to move forward with. A multi pronged round of rebuttal speeches would of been the way to go imo.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360...rrive-waitangi

[TheDemonLord]

A multi pronged round of rebuttal speeches would of been the way to go imo.

The problem is they dont have a rebuttal that does not rely on fundamentally racist notions.

Listening to some of the highlighted submissions on the Treaty bill, all too often we hear the question: How does this benefit Maori.

I think a better question to ask is how would this benefit all New Zealanders....

[sugilite:Me]

Just read the article linked below, looks like we have a mini 2 level justice system ala usa. If you are a rich high profile businessman with friends in the right places, poof the case goes away - concerning.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/3605...-was-convicted

"Stuff has spoken to a former senior police officer who looked at the file while investigating an unrelated matter.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, he said while he didn’t read the file from cover to cover, he saw enough which made him question why Jago wasn’t charged in 1999.

“For a case like this, you’d look at the circumstances - time, place, opportunity - which is what you had. It should’ve been a slam dunk, an easy decision to charge,” he said. "

How did this guy ever become the act president?

[R650R]

This is worth a watch to here some actual facts and also see Guy Williams (quite a likeable comedian) get owned twice.

Bit of an own goal to take mic away (he was wearing a wifi lav Mike anyway) while someone’s giving a speech about equal rights…

[onearmedbandit]

and also see Guy Williams (quite a likeable comedian) get owned twice.

Ha someone edited his wiki page

[R650R]

Ha someone edited his wiki page

Oh bugger lol. You really have to wonder why he was there though. I mean all his nz today stuff is epic from Karen wants her $20 and the inside line on Huntley life.
I think Seymour will replace Winston eventually as the politician for holding media in check, neither let anyone get away with twisting what they have said, that takes some sharp mental awuity to pull off.

[sugilite:Me]

Interesting perspective - video within link.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/3605...victim-complex

[husaberg]

Oh bugger lol. You really have to wonder why he was there though. I mean all his nz today stuff is epic from Karen wants her $20 and the inside line on Huntley life.
I think Seymour will replace Winston eventually as the politician for holding media in check, neither let anyone get away with twisting what they have said, that takes some sharp mental awuity to pull off.

Weren't you the same fellow that thought this

Wow Prsident Biden is so busy building America back better he's cancelled the inauguration ceremony and told people to stay home.
Man the freee world is so lucky to have such a popular leader he didn't even have to campaign to win. And so cool he's giving the national guard herd immunity by having 1000 soldiers each from over 30 states sleep on the floor of the capital building where all the super spreader republican posters have just been.
The guy is a genius.
You know when guys are so popular like 84 million votes we just shouldn't even have elections anymore they just cause conflict. The media with their super accurate polls are better suited to picking our leaders we should just trust the, to do it.
I can't wait to see Biden build back a better America. It's high time he busted that border wall so all he corporates can have cheap labour and not have to hire over educated lazy Americans that want capitalist stuff like minimum wages and healthcare.
It's so great that we have great leaders who will make us all equal so soon. I feel so guilty of my white privilege owning a house and working for ,y money. It's so great they going to reset that so we all equal and own nothing so don't have to waste money on insurance. I'm tired of making my own decisions in life, it will be great having govt telling me which products to buy.
Flying to North Korea next week as I can't wait for the trickle down effect, I want to have nothing now. If I get any good deals on hyosung or daewoo machinery I will sell here first to my friends.
I have covid 21 vaccine e pediment already too isn I feel great never better.
I inv step all my savings in Boeing and fly on new max 800 the safest plane Korea going to buy them cheap and re brand as Earbus the sound of freedom.
Take care mo friends I have not lot internet where go next now.

I was done from trying to rescue the Stockholm syndrome affected posters in here but this was too good not to post....


CNN interviews high ranking ANTIFA member who disguised himself as Trump supporter with a hat and was at the front row of the shooting incident along with another infiltrator.
100% pure agent provocateurs and bound to be more as these pussies never do anything without at least a couple dozen masked morons.....
This guy was already identified early in other forums and images, but here he is outed on mainstream news. Bet the ERF BEEEE EYE don't touch him though.....


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/202...uilding-riots/

[TheDemonLord]

To clarify a few things - When it comes to the end-goal, I do not believe that most Maori want Communism, at all. Only a small number of Academics, Activists and Politicians want that.

The issue is that they use the following narrative:

The Colonizers took Utopia for you, did nothing for you, put you in prison, stole your lands - if we get rid of them, we can live in Utopia again!

And just like you identified with Debbie Ngarewa-Packer - when pushed for the real answer, she goes awfully evasive - because I think they know it wont fly.

Where I perhaps disagree with you is where the balance is currently. For the sake of Argument, let us say you and I went to either the Waitangi Tribunal, the Beehive Civil Service or the University courses that teach the subjects that feed into these areas. I feel confident that I could take a firehose, turn it full blast, swing it around the respective rooms and never once get an ACT voter wet (you and I excluded of course).

I bet though I would get quite a few open Marxists and I would *definitely* get a large number of people who believed in Decolonization (even if they may not know what the end-goal actually is).

And whilst it is up to them to interpret what the Principles are, they will lean in favor of their world view, ignoring historical context, engaging in judicial activism, opting for a Living Document view, rather than an Originalist and Textualist approach.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/3606...tangi-tribunal

Richard Prebble has quit the Waitangi Tribunal only months after his appointment to a body he has slammed as pushing a “socialist manifesto”.

Surprise Surprise.

I do love being vindicated as correct.

[sugilite:Me]

So now it is a liquid lunch david?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/3606...es-liquidation

Latest photos, erm yum?