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Thread: David Seymour

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    I say give the new laws some time before proclaiming them ineffective. I'm comfortable with the new laws. I know you are not.
    Gun violence when adjusted for population says the highest ever level recorded was when National and Act was in power right before the 2017 election.

    In 2020, But when comparing that to population, the rate of firearms related injuries were the fifth worst on record, with the previous highest being 2016.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    . And remembering the 'tough new gun laws' were designed to 'stop crime'

    And they haven't.
    Sorry I have to correct you there. Other laws are designed to stop crime such as do not kill, rob, assault and rape etc. [Crimes Act mainly]

    Our Gun laws are not designed to stop crime. They are designed to ensure the safe use and responsible ownership and possession of firearms. The 2019 Prohibited amendments were designed to reduce the likelihood of the most dangerous types of firearms falling into the wrong hands and therefore reducing the likelihood of another mass killing. For sure gangs are still using firearms for crime and people are still using firearms to commit murder. But the opportunity for potential offenders to source high powered rapid fire guns with large magazines has been diminished and that in itself is a success. Sure, there are still guns floating around in the wrong hands but the pool is shrinking and bit by bit they are being seized. So I think we have to say the new laws are working towards their objective.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MD View Post
    Sorry I have to correct you there. Other laws are designed to stop crime such as do not kill, rob, assault and rape etc. [Crimes Act mainly]

    Our Gun laws are not designed to stop crime. They are designed to ensure the safe use and responsible ownership and possession of firearms. The 2019 Prohibited amendments were designed to reduce the likelihood of the most dangerous types of firearms falling into the wrong hands and therefore reducing the likelihood of another mass killing. For sure gangs are still using firearms for crime and people are still using firearms to commit murder. But the opportunity for potential offenders to source high powered rapid fire guns with large magazines has been diminished and that in itself is a success. Sure, there are still guns floating around in the wrong hands but the pool is shrinking and bit by bit they are being seized. So I think we have to say the new laws are working towards their objective.
    And I absolutely disagree.

    What would have stopped the Chch event was the Police doing their job properly at the point of issuing a licence.

    If they needed to change the law - then re-classifying Magazines that held more than 7 rounds of centrefire and patterned for a Semi-Auto reciever as requiring an E-Cat licence would have also solved it.

    Has it diminished? Well, the vast majority of Semi-Autos are still out there, so....
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Gun violence when adjusted for population says the highest ever level recorded was when National and Act was in power right before the 2017 election.
    Curious isn't it, that in order to blame National, you have to adjust for Population, as opposed to using the absolute number (which is what people care about).

    Again with the absolute abuse of stats.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    When it comes to banning something, unless there's an immediate effect - then it was ineffective.
    I dunno about that, I mean have their been any more terrorist attacks in NZ with the use of guns since the law came in?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    I dunno about that, I mean have their been any more terrorist attacks in NZ with the use of guns since the law came in?
    To be fair, it would seem we've only had one terrorist attack with guns in NZ at all.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_New_Zealand
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    Quote Originally Posted by onearmedbandit View Post
    To be fair, it would seem we've only had one terrorist attack with guns in NZ at all.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_New_Zealand
    David Gray? Jan Molenaar? Stanley Graham? What defines the difference between a "terrorist" and a "pissed off guy with a gun"
    it's not a bad thing till you throw a KLR into the mix.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by onearmedbandit View Post
    To be fair, it would seem we've only had one terrorist attack with guns in NZ at all.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_New_Zealand
    yep, exactly. Tis a subtle dig at TDL as I see a parallel to asking this question with TDL's saying Putin did not invade Ukraine while Trump is in charge. As in about as relevant as a small cloud in the sky.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete376403 View Post
    David Gray? Jan Molenaar? Stanley Graham? What defines the difference between a "terrorist" and a "pissed off guy with a gun"
    The definition used is given in the link. But to save you the effort...

    However, unlike some other jurisdictions,[3] New Zealand has actually defined terrorism in an Act of Parliament.

    The major piece of terrorist-related legislation in New Zealand is the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002.[4] The Act was introduced by the Government to strengthen its counter-terrorism powers, in response to the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 in the United States.[5] The Terrorism Suppression Act defines terrorism, in New Zealand or elsewhere, as an act that "is carried out for the purpose of advancing an ideological, political, or religious cause"[4] and with the following intention:

    to induce terror in a civilian population; or
    to unduly compel or to force a government or an international organisation to do or abstain from doing any act.

    And if it results in one or more of the following outcomes:[4]

    the death of, or other serious bodily injury to, one or more persons (other than a person carrying out the act):
    a serious risk to the health or safety of a population:
    destruction of, or serious damage to, property of great value or importance, or major economic loss, or major environmental damage, if likely to result in one or more outcomes specified in points 1, 2 and 4:
    serious interference with, or serious disruption to, an infrastructure facility, if likely to endanger human life:
    introduction or release of a disease-bearing organism, if likely to devastate the national economy of a country.

    Alternatively, instead of the listed outcomes, "it occurs in a situation of armed conflict and is, at the time and in the place that it occurs, in accordance with rules of international law applicable to the conflict"
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    yep, exactly. Tis a subtle dig at TDL as I see a parallel to asking this question with TDL's saying Putin did not invade Ukraine while Trump is in charge. As in about as relevant as a small cloud in the sky.
    That crossed my mind after I posted it but figured what the hey.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by onearmedbandit View Post
    That crossed my mind after I posted it but figured what the hey.
    Yep, no worries. For the record, seeing what happened yet again in the US, this time an alleged white supremacist killing 10 black people at a mall. I'm comfortable with the current gun laws here.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    Yep, no worries. For the record, seeing what happened yet again in the US, this time an alleged white supremacist killing 10 black people at a mall. I'm comfortable with the current gun laws here.
    Same too, while there is a lot more behind gun crime in America than just gun accessibility it is still a major undeniable factor, even if only relevant to the other underlying causes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete376403 View Post
    David Gray? Jan Molenaar? Stanley Graham? What defines the difference between a "terrorist" and a "pissed off guy with a gun"
    In case you were serious, the definition 'terrorism' requires a poitical component. If they leave a "manifesto" as did the Christchurch mosque shooter, as did Breivik and this Buffalo arsehole, that can qualify as terrorism.

    Stanley Graham was seriously pissed off but he wasn't a terrorist. Brenda Spencer who sorta started the whole US school shooting thing didn't like Mondays; she may be mad, but she's not a terrorist.
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    I dunno about that, I mean have their been any more terrorist attacks in NZ with the use of guns since the law came in?
    Well, it was nearly 30 years between the last 'mass shooting', so if there's a mass shooting before that 30 year period, we'll know it didn't work :P
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by pritch View Post
    Stanley Graham was seriously pissed off but he wasn't a terrorist. Brenda Spencer who sorta started the whole US school shooting thing didn't like Mondays; she may be mad, but she's not a terrorist.
    Brenda Spencer wasn't even close to starting it, school shootings in America go back a few hundred years, it's one of their favourite pastimes

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