So, Cost of Living increases

[TheDemonLord]

At the moment it seems to be the government, given they're subsidising family incomes with tax credits and tenants with accommodation supplements to the tune of around 5 billion dollars per year.

- Paying people using borrowed Money
- Increasing Money supply, with no commensurate increase in value

Which then leads to

- Increase in Inflation
- causing people on static incomes to be worse off
- leading to more people needing 'subsidies'

etc. ad infinitum.

I want to point out - that this Governments tag line was 'Kindness' and 'Well being' and other such nauseating buzz-words. What is Kind or Well Being about making terrible policy decisions that disproportionately effect those worst off?

People love to rag on the Right Wing as being uncaring - but I ask you - what is kinder? Leaving people to their fate, be it good or bad - or actively assisting in their destruction?

[TheDemonLord]

Burn them.

Which ones?

There's no shortage of candidates, depending on your view point.

[R650R]

Shock Horror NZ Harold, squeaking loudly about another 10% increase in Fruit and Vegetables.
The 2 major players in food in NZ ARE Creaming it!
They charge for shelf space, it doesn't matter if they don't sell your product!
Is it Friday yet?

They also have all sorts of clauses that favour them too. Couple of mates setup a succussful business manufacturing and selling a boutique food product. At farmers market level they were creaming it. But when a major supermarket chain signed them it destroyed them.
At first it seemed great, national exposure for the product.... but clauses like twice a month you offer your product at a promotional price.... but then supermarket then keepsit on special for several weeks at a time. So half time they buy your product on cheap but promote it when it suits them. Unless you have massive turnover and consumer uptake the costs involved in the next step up just hammer you.

[R650R]

what do i want?

unfortunately this system is unfixable ... the type of person attracted to politics is restricted, most know/feel the system is corrupt so those that enter politics are generally those that see an advantage for themselves and their backers, honest people are quickly sorted out and 'cancelled'

this is a spiritual battle, put in black and white terms, 'good vs evil', a battle for souls, the current transhuman agenda is altering the very dna of our humanity

over the coming decade, at a minimum, millions will die from starvation, violence, disease, the death jab, by 2023/2024 europe will probably be at war and later break up (germany vs the rest), usa will break up, nth vs sth?, east vs west? libtard vs conservative? swift is now a political tool, china has been building, the west has been destroying, russia has massive resources

we live inside a giant ponzi scheme, learn what a credit derivative is, this will soon bust, is deflating already, dont keep shit in the bank, dont expect any superanuation, pay off your debt, there are only 3 days worth of food stock inside any supermarket - better prepare

here in nzl we have a corrupted treaty being used to destroy conservatism, this will lead to major problems in a society that has been, to a large degree, deweaponised ... as the structure begins to breakdown you better hope you have land, skills, tools, physical gold and silver, a garden and a way to protect yourself

gangs are going to become confrontational and will control large territories (it wont be madmax but it wont be 'nice'), best learn maori, get fit, learn aikido

this is not what i want but one has to be realistic - i wont get what i want because i am too honest, in any case it is too late to avoid the shit, look at history - all societies that have given up their weapons have been killed - im honest but pissed off, and you should be too, we are the silent majority but lack leadership

this is what is missing - honest leadership - and is what i fear we will never see

what do you want?

Stop watching Alex Jones. By the time the economy gets bad enough that you NEED gold and silver the govt will have labelled private physical holders economic terrorists and will come seize your gold. Even easier now with electronic records they will know who owns what
The govt can and will nationalise and take any asset they like in a crisis.
I agree with tools though a good tradeable commodity during crisis, a shovel to bury the dead to make the house liveable etc...
I have owned gold and made a tidy profit but it’s a big risk storing it privately, your also at the mercy of nz/usd exchange rate which often acts in reverse to counter gains.

[R650R]

I think the system has become so big and so complex that it's starting to break down naturally.

I've seen enough politicians come and go to know that none of them can fix it - at least not for everyone, whatever they do always advantages some over others.

When you've sold your population on the whole 'equal opportunity for all' thing and that everyone should have the same access to education/healthcare/shelter/food/mana as everyone else, it's not surprising that those whose day to day experience doesn't match that get a bit annoyed about it. Sadly I'm not convinced we can live up to those lofty goals anymore.

We've just had a crisis with Covid, and it's exposed how fragile and overstretched the whole thing really is. A proper crisis is overdue (historically speaking) and as much as I don't want to live through one, that's probably the only thing that would get everybody paddling in the same direction again.

Meanwhile if price rises and shrinkflation are the only way businesses can see to keep going in the meantime, and consumers are struggling to keep up, I'd say that's just more evidence of the whole system breaking down.

Correct and 100% agree. There’s thoudands of years of human history showing the ten stages of civilisation before collapse occurs, were at about step 8 or 9 now....
Hopefully it doesn’t quite happen in our lifetime, because it won’t be pretty.
And the worst thing about societal revolution is often the worst people take over through several cycles before stability occurs. This may take 10-30 years and be a very horrible time.

[nerrrd]

- Paying people using borrowed Money
- Increasing Money supply, with no commensurate increase in value

Which then leads to

- Increase in Inflation
- causing people on static incomes to be worse off
- leading to more people needing 'subsidies'

etc. ad infinitum.

I want to point out - that this Governments tag line was 'Kindness' and 'Well being' and other such nauseating buzz-words. What is Kind or Well Being about making terrible policy decisions that disproportionately effect those worst off?

People love to rag on the Right Wing as being uncaring - but I ask you - what is kinder? Leaving people to their fate, be it good or bad - or actively assisting in their destruction?

In fairness, both the items I mentioned are legacy policies from Governments past. The point being that both sides of the political coin in NZ (which I would argue is basically one-sided) have conceded that these subsidies are necessary for both businesses and a sizeable portion of the working population. I'm pretty sure they would stop them tomorrow if they thought they could and get away with it.

I'd argue that the kind of steps you've outlined above are the only things keeping the system from falling over altogether. It may yet do so. Maybe it was never sustainable in the first place.

[TheDemonLord]

In fairness, both the items I mentioned are legacy policies from Governments past. The point being that both sides of the political coin in NZ (which I would argue is basically one-sided) have conceded that these subsidies are necessary for both businesses and a sizeable portion of the working population. I'm pretty sure they would stop them tomorrow if they thought they could and get away with it.

I'd argue that the kind of steps you've outlined above are the only things keeping the system from falling over altogether. It may yet do so. Maybe it was never sustainable in the first place.

Far be it for me to stop people bashing National - however the current rapid escalation is almost entirely to do with Jacinda and co.

I mean - they could solve it - first step would be to look at Immigration, then look at the cost of doing business (specifically things like the RMA for new house builds and all the increase in regulations brought in by Labour - again under the guise of being 'kind'), then stop printing money and seriously look at the wastage in Government departments. etc. etc.

Whilst I see the point you make - I view this more akin to giving a Heroin addict a steady supply of drugs, rather than forcing them to go Cold Turkey. In this thread, people have raised the Spectre of The Iron Lady - and I see what she did as a solution to the types of Mess that we are currently in.

And to quote the Lady:

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money"

[wetanz]

Stop watching Alex Jones. By the time the economy gets bad enough that you NEED gold and silver the govt will have labelled private physical holders economic terrorists and will come seize your gold. Even easier now with electronic records they will know who owns what
The govt can and will nationalise and take any asset they like in a crisis.
I agree with tools though a good tradeable commodity during crisis, a shovel to bury the dead to make the house liveable etc...
I have owned gold and made a tidy profit but it’s a big risk storing it privately, your also at the mercy of nz/usd exchange rate which often acts in reverse to counter gains.

-alex jones is controlled opposition and not worth listening to
-govt has already named us eco t's, (as in '51) and will (as has been done often in the past) as you correctly point out, nationalise whatever it wants - thank goodness for 'boating accidents' and spades
-gold silver ratio favours silver, an industrial metal, predominantly a byproduct of zn, au, cu, pb, u mining, peak silver production betw 2027 and 2038, with reserves set to run out by 2240, a still cheap commodity in physical form for the small investor, as the paper silver and cd mkts break physical will perform, this new green deal will increase demand for conductive metals (and super conducters ), compare au/ag with other commodities and theyre being hit thru the paper mkt (quite deliberately), best trade of course was lithium (a no brainer after the chief child hair sniffer pulled out of afghanistan)
- both au and ag have become tradeabley viable since 2005

[wetanz]

Far be it for me to stop people bashing National - however the current rapid escalation is almost entirely to do with Jacinda and co.

I mean - they could solve it - first step would be to look at Immigration, then look at the cost of doing business (specifically things like the RMA for new house builds and all the increase in regulations brought in by Labour - again under the guise of being 'kind'), then stop printing money and seriously look at the wastage in Government departments. etc. etc.

Whilst I see the point you make - I view this more akin to giving a Heroin addict a steady supply of drugs, rather than forcing them to go Cold Turkey. In this thread, people have raised the Spectre of The Iron Lady - and I see what she did as a solution to the types of Mess that we are currently in.

And to quote the Lady:

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money"

why should the jackal fix this, shes in lockstep with the wef, has been trained to do exactly as shes doing (re. macron, trudeau etc), national will be no better - uniparty politics, this liberal drivel using emotional undefineable touchy feely language, like 'kindness', is designed to cater for the braindead idiots spat out by the past 50 yrs of education policy

the iron lady must be exploring the bounds of her grave, god rest her soul

[TheDemonLord]

why should the jackal fix this, shes in lockstep with the wef, has been trained to do exactly as shes doing (re. macron, trudeau etc), national will be no better - uniparty politics, this liberal drivel using emotional undefineable touchy feely language, like 'kindness', is designed to cater for the braindead idiots spat out by the past 50 yrs of education policy

the iron lady must be exploring the bounds of her grave, god rest her soul

I mean, I can answer why she Should.

But I agree with why she won't.

[pete376403]

Far be it for me to stop people bashing National - however the current rapid escalation is almost entirely to do with Jacinda and co.

I mean - they could solve it - first step would be to look at Immigration, then look at the cost of doing business (specifically things like the RMA for new house builds and all the increase in regulations brought in by Labour - again under the guise of being 'kind'), then stop printing money and seriously look at the wastage in Government departments. etc. etc.

Whilst I see the point you make - I view this more akin to giving a Heroin addict a steady supply of drugs, rather than forcing them to go Cold Turkey. In this thread, people have raised the Spectre of The Iron Lady - and I see what she did as a solution to the types of Mess that we are currently in.

And to quote the Lady:

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money"

Odd that you should be so enraptured with Thatcher, considering you were too young to be greatly affected while she was in power. Others dont see her in quite the same glowing light as you. Asking "People love to rag on the Right Wing as being uncaring - but I ask you - what is kinder? Leaving people to their fate, be it good or bad - or actively assisting in their destruction?" - seems to be the same thing. leave them to their fate or or hurry things up by actively assisting them to their destruction.

"You don't starve people into becoming entrepreneurs. You don't even starve them into being upstanding citizens. You just starve them into submission. Welfare dependency is submission to an economic model that shrugs at mass unemployment and says it's a fact of life. That model is Thatcherism, and a recognition of all aspects of its enormous legacy is long overdue.

Thatcherism left Britain politically, economically and regionally divided, a state that was meant to be proud that it stood for something in the world again, even as Thatcherism warned that the state was the enemy of freedom and not to be relied upon. No one could bring in change of the shape, speed and size that Thatcher did, and not expect any flaws or problems to emerge. To say that she's responsible for the country's recent triumphs, but not for any of its woes, defies all logic." https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...thers-suffered

[TheDemonLord]

Odd that you should be so enraptured with Thatcher, considering you were too young to be greatly affected while she was in power. Others dont see her in quite the same glowing light as you. Asking "People love to rag on the Right Wing as being uncaring - but I ask you - what is kinder? Leaving people to their fate, be it good or bad - or actively assisting in their destruction?" - seems to be the same thing. leave them to their fate or or hurry things up by actively assisting them to their destruction.

I grew up in Post-Thatcher Britain - You are right in one sense, I didn't experience Rubbish piling up in the Streets, I didn't experience rolling Black outs, I didn't experience constant Union Strikes - and for that, I'm quite grateful.

The part you omit is that the British tax payer was subsidizing dying industries. Dying in that they no longer had the Demand, they no longer had the supply or had failed to modernize.

Industries that had once been private, forced to nationalize under the post-war Labour government and then run badly (something something Socialism something running out of other peoples money) to the point where once world-leaders, were shadows of their former self.

And this isn't mere speculation on my part - the downfall of British industry under Nationalization is well documented to the point where we know that the Labour government was subsidizing these industries to the point where it was in effect a form of Welfare.

I will grant that at the individual level, going to work and earning a Pay cheque is far more honest and fulfilling than standing in a Dole Queue.

"You don't starve people into becoming entrepreneurs. You don't even starve them into being upstanding citizens. You just starve them into submission. Welfare dependency is submission to an economic model that shrugs at mass unemployment and says it's a fact of life. That model is Thatcherism, and a recognition of all aspects of its enormous legacy is long overdue.

Thatcherism left Britain politically, economically and regionally divided, a state that was meant to be proud that it stood for something in the world again, even as Thatcherism warned that the state was the enemy of freedom and not to be relied upon. No one could bring in change of the shape, speed and size that Thatcher did, and not expect any flaws or problems to emerge. To say that she's responsible for the country's recent triumphs, but not for any of its woes, defies all logic." https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...thers-suffered

Oh Look, The Guardian hating on Thatcher - may as well have said the Sky is Blue.

Now - to be fair to the point being made - there is much to say about Thatcher's treatment of the North - as above, taking away someones self-worth by essentially making them redundant and now directly dependent was ruthless.

In the grand scheme of things, I think it was a necessary evil, but every Northerner who says 'Fuck Thatcher' is not without good reason.

That said, I could easily replace words in the quote by the Guardian to describe Labour's Policy towards the Nationalized industries, it was in effect a form of Welfare dependency.

To answer the actual question posed by the Guardian - she is not responsible for it's Woes - All of her Policies were a response to the issues caused by the Labour Governments of the 1960s and 70s which were heavily influenced by Socialism (Harold Wilson) and were directly responsible for the troubles that Thatcher essentially inherited (and subsequently dealt with).

[mashman]

the small and medium sized companies are being deliberately squeezed out of the game

leaves the corporations controlling production and distribution ... allows regimented just in time supply lines, fully controlled distribution to those in favour ... if your social credit score doesnt fit, no food or energy

So what? That's business. Such is life. 'Free Markets' will always turn out that way. That some cream it is the name of the game... fuck the billions they leave in their wake, along with a further depleted planet that's just wasted a fucktonne of resources on producing more landfill simply because, well, that's how capitalism and free markets work. Humans, I dunno.

[wetanz]

So what? That's business. Such is life. 'Free Markets' will always turn out that way. That some cream it is the name of the game... fuck the billions they leave in their wake, along with a further depleted planet that's just wasted a fucktonne of resources on producing more landfill simply because, well, that's how capitalism and free markets work. Humans, I dunno.

... if you think the markets are free and we live in a capitalist society i've got a bridge to sell you

[mashman]

... if you think the markets are free and we live in a capitalist society i've got a bridge to sell you

The free market is A methodology. Capitalism is A tool. Moving towards totalitarianism as a society is what's happening using a free market methodology, meritocratised by Capitalism. That's not the predominant perspective though, hence the wheel keeps turning as it has and does. I guess that disqualifies me for the bridge. Darn, and I've got plenty of use for it given the number of people who need to get over one.