Luxon ?

[pritch]

“Signs need to be clear. We all speak English, and they should be in English. Place names are okay, but when it comes to important signs saying things like ‘Expressway’, they should be in English, as it’s going to be confusing if you add more words,” he [Simeon Brown] said.

That's dodgy, as it implies English won't be on the signs, but the example shown in the item has:
TE ARA PUAKI
EXPRESSWAY

Perhaps crowded and messy (yes, he did go on to use the word "add", but that wasn't the selected headline), and may confuse some while they get used to it, but the English is there for those who prefer.

What Simeon Brown really meant was "... they should [only] be in English ...".

Screw him, and Nationals' policy on this.

Maori is one of our three official languages, although I did see a recent claim that Maori is our only official language. That may be an aspiration but it's not law. Basically I don't have an objection to Maori being used in principal but I do have a couple of reservations.

A Maori translation for "Expressway" f'rinstance. Maori had no expressways, there was no Maori word for expressway until somebody recently created one out of thin air. For me that has zero validity. Expressway should not have a translation on a road sign - or anywhere else.

I have a Maori dictionary here, the word haemoglobin has a translation. Maori didn't even know haemoglobin existed. The taxpayer is paying people to create new words from noithing.

Recently I received a letter from a government agency with a Maori name. It is a new agency and I was initially puzzled as to who the letter was from, I was unaware this new agency even existed. That's taking it too far and seems less than professional.

When I pointed these reservations out to a Maori speaker I was told that Maori is a living language. German is a living language, they don't invent their own words for computer, mouse, monitor, etc. They just use the universal word, although they may spell it differently. From memory the Maori word for computer is rorohiko.
By now you can safely assume I don't think there should even be a Maori word for computer.

Anyhoo I'm not too bothered by all this 'cause nobody gives a fuck what I think. If I contacted the local MP about this he'd probably think I was just another racist.

[R650R]

“Signs need to be clear. We all speak English, and they should be in English. Place names are okay, but when it comes to important signs saying things like ‘Expressway’, they should be in English, as it’s going to be confusing if you add more words,” he [Simeon Brown] said.

That's dodgy, as it implies English won't be on the signs, but the example shown in the item has:
TE ARA PUAKI
EXPRESSWAY

Perhaps crowded and messy (yes, he did go on to use the word "add", but that wasn't the selected headline), and may confuse some while they get used to it, but the English is there for those who prefer.

What Simeon Brown really meant was "... they should [only] be in English ...".

Screw him, and Nationals' policy on this.

Let’s take race out of it completely and use a fantastic example the govt themselves provided.

Here in HB we have SH5 (Taupo) SH2 (Wairoa) from north. Escaping south we have SH2 towards waipawa and the back way to Takapau via tikikino SH50. In centre of Napier SH2 and 50 overlapped and also the new expressway was called SH50A despite becoming SH2 again south of Hadtings.

Anyhow this was causing drama due to the combination of dimwit millennials in 111 Comms, imported police with poor local geographic knowledge, motorists using what satnav says road is when calling in emergency.
So resources were being wasted in triplicate when responding to life threaten entrapment/fire crashes. So the powers that be reallocated all the numbers to whatever it is now on Google maps.

So yeah having duplicate names on signs in language that tourists will have problems with won’t cause any issues at all

[neels]

I noticed in Wales they have signs in both English and Welsh, but I somehow managed to find my way to where I was going.

Clearly people there have the same concerns as being raised here though

Recently I received a letter from a government agency with a Maori name. It is a new agency and I was initially puzzled as to who the letter was from, I was unaware this new agency even existed. That's taking it too far and seems less than professional.

That is something that seems to be increasingly overlooked, yes it's nice to give an organisation a name in maori, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to at least subtitle what it means in english

Anyhoo I'm not too bothered by all this 'cause nobody gives a fuck what I think. If I contacted the local MP about this he'd probably think I was just another racist.

I suspect you're right on both counts.

[husaberg]

Luxon is just another somwhat balder version of Johnson.

[pzkpfw]

... A Maori translation for "Expressway" f'rinstance. Maori had no expressways, there was no Maori word for expressway until somebody recently created one out of thin air. For me that has zero validity. Expressway should not have a translation on a road sign - or anywhere else.

I have a Maori dictionary here, the word haemoglobin has a translation. Maori didn't even know haemoglobin existed. The taxpayer is paying people to create new words from noithing.
...

I used to have similar reservations. I distinctly remember watching an after-school kids' show in the 80's and being taught that the Maori word for "Pen" was "Pene". I remember thinking something like "why do they* need a word for pen - when they never even had any? Why not just use 'pen' like how English got 'entrepreneur'?".

Recently watched an item on a morning breakfast-news show where it was explained. I won't do it justice so will chicken out of trying to explain it, but I was left thinking "fine, cool" about it. (And there wasn't much taxpayer money involved in the growth of language.)

(* Also - it took a long time for me to realise my use of "they" was itself problematic. Racism creeps in all sneaky.)

I noticed in Wales they have signs in both English and Welsh, but I somehow managed to find my way to where I was going. ...

Great example. I was wondering if I could find something from Canada (French/English) or somewhere as an example of, well, exactly what you showed.



For me the the biggest annoyance is how it becomes some "big issue" out of nowhere to cause division and stir up the base.

Reminds me of when Whittakers did a chocolate wrapper in Te Reo. The way some people reacted it was like they thought kids would get all confused and start eating rat poison or something. Get a grip.

[Laava]

Mmm, Whittakers!

[MD]

Maori is one of our three official languages, although I did see a recent claim that Maori is our only official language. That may be an aspiration but it's not law. Basically I don't have an objection to Maori being used in principal but I do have a couple of reservations.

A Maori translation for "Expressway" f'rinstance. Maori had no expressways, there was no Maori word for expressway until somebody recently created one out of thin air. For me that has zero validity. Expressway should not have a translation on a road sign - or anywhere else.

I have a Maori dictionary here, the word haemoglobin has a translation. Maori didn't even know haemoglobin existed. The taxpayer is paying people to create new words from noithing.

Recently I received a letter from a government agency with a Maori name. It is a new agency and I was initially puzzled as to who the letter was from, I was unaware this new agency even existed. That's taking it too far and seems less than professional.

When I pointed these reservations out to a Maori speaker I was told that Maori is a living language. German is a living language, they don't invent their own words for computer, mouse, monitor, etc. They just use the universal word, although they may spell it differently. From memory the Maori word for computer is rorohiko.
By now you can safely assume I don't think there should even be a Maori word for computer.

Anyhoo I'm not too bothered by all this 'cause nobody gives a fuck what I think. If I contacted the local MP about this he'd probably think I was just another racist.

Well I agree with you.
Road signs need to be read and UNDERSTOOD within a fraction of a second, at a quick glance. Having too many words, and worse in different languages becomes too busy for the brain to instantly capture the message. Simply unnecessary and dangerous. Not like we don't already have a problem with foreign tourists driving on our roads, let's confuse them even more.

Also agree that bilingual names/signs are fine but should be a translation. Not some woke dreamed up misnomer plucked out of thin air that has no relevance or meaning to the subject. Most new words have an accepted global usage, as you said above like computers, microwaves, monitors and one of my favourites 'segway'. An invention that's name has become synonymous with 'moving along'. There is no need to translate the name/verb 'segway' into any other language. Mercedes-Benz cars are still Mercedes-Benz in any country/language. Makes for simple well understood communications. Imagine the outroar if other countries renamed our Kiwi bird with a made-up word in their language.

Let me guess the new Government agency that wrote to you was Te Tari Pureke. I'm all for having a translation but it should be just that. Someone who only speaks Te Reo should be able to read the name for the first time and immediately understand what it refers too- a clear and meaningful description/translation. Its translation by the way is along the lines of 'a person of authority wearing a rough rain cape' I'm struggling to see how you get from that to Firearms Safety Authority? You need one hell of a segway for that leap.

Imagine a person who only speaks Te Reo or a foreign visitor to NZ wants to apply for a Firearms Licence and they ask where do they apply and are told to google 'a person of authority wearing a rough rain cape' They will probably get results for Farmers Menswear section or retail Condom sellers. A name that bears no relevance whatsoever to the agency or it's purpose.

It is good that more people know how to speak Te Reo now than a few years ago. I once tried to learn another language. It was a good way to gain a better understanding of the people and their history. Unfortunately my Kiwi tongue does not do other languages well but I go to pains to try and get Te Reo pronouncing right. The Missus is trying to learn Te Reo at the mo but like me struggles to get her tongue around it. It is part of this country's history and needs to be preserved along with all the other peoples that immigrated here. But please can we stop referring to Maori as the indigenous language of NZ. This is not a racist comment, it's simply the truth and factual. NZ has no indigenous people, never has and therefore never can. Open a dictionary if in doubt. Hint- go to words starting with 'i' then 'n'

[pete376403]

. NZ has no indigenous people, never has and therefore never can. Open a dictionary if in doubt. Hint- go to words starting with 'i' then 'n'

or perphaps "i' and "m" (imports, immigrants, ...)

And "Segway" (commercial name of a two wheeled people mover) is a corruption of "segue" - verb - (in music and film) move without interruption from one piece of music or scene to another.
"allow one song to segue into the next"
- noun
an uninterrupted transition from one piece of music or film scene to another.

Which just shows the English language is a living thing that changes and adapts to create words where previously there were none - so why shouldn't other languages also be allowed to do this?

[onearmedbandit]

That hurt to read.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...criticism.html

[TheDemonLord]

That hurt to read.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...criticism.html

Really says something about the push to adopt another language, when they can't use the existing one correctly....


I've stayed out of this debate for a bit - for starters - I pretty much entirely agree with Pritch's statement - making up Maori words for the sake of having a Maori word for something has always seemed silly.

I mean - I don't say 'A Place for children to grow' - I saw Kindergarten. If it's good enough for the English to have loan words for concepts/ideas/things that didn't exist in England, it's good enough for every other language.

That all said...

When I lived in the UK, every year - we went on holiday to Wales. I've raised a few eyebrows from unsuspecting Welsh people in NZ with a well placed Diolch yn fawr or Iechyd da. And on a good day I can say the full name of Llanfair PG.

I remember the time when bi-lingual signs in Wales started to appear - and I do agree that in order to truly appreciate a culture, one should appreciate the Language.

The issue though in NZ specifically is that despite agreeing a lot with both sides of the argument, I know what the ulterior motive is - and so I'm opposed on that basis.

[R650R]

Back to topic Luxon has said they will force councils to zone for 30 years of residential land growth immediately. Finally a common sense policy

[husaberg]

Back to topic Luxon has said they will force councils to zone for 30 years of residential land growth immediately. Finally a common sense policy

Do you realise this is a anti farmer policy? the farmers have to pays rates on its values and ergo the way land is zoned. if its zoned residential it costs a shit ton more.

They have to put 30 years of growth into the market right now to create abundant development opportunities to drive down the cost of land, both at our city fringe but also inside our cities to make housing more affordable.”

If the farmers going to have to pay residential rates on rural land that's going to F-off a lot of farmers
Not to mention telling the councils to do stuff ïnstead of being based on commercial demand but instead "for the good of the people." doesn't this sound a little communistic.

From time to time, he slipped into hyperbole. The Government is “killing the agriculture sector”, Waka Kotahi is “spending all its money on te reo road signs,” and, “it’s very hard to do business here”.

In fact, dairy is booming,

Odd did he not know dairy is heading into a recession.... how can he be that out of touch?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/...s-demand-drops
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/country/4...and-8-point-60

Luxton also said this

he was “ruthlessly obsessed” with building more houses, but would prefer to see a much greater focus on greenfields developments.

that was what the last lady said.....

“

There’s no doubt young women got Jacinda Ardern elected,” he said, “but you look at the people here today. How are you going to bring young women back?”

“I can assure you,” Luxon said, “we are attracting younger people.”

https://www.1news.co.nz/2020/07/20/n...l-to-teenager/

[Kickaha]

A Maori translation for "Expressway" f'rinstance. Maori had no expressways, there was no Maori word for expressway until somebody recently created one out of thin air. For me that has zero validity.

Neither did anyone else a few hundred years ago, or for Cars, Automobiles, Aeroplanes, electricity etc etc etc, we live in a world of made up names

[Laava]

Neither did anyone else a few hundred years ago, or for Cars, Automobiles, Aeroplanes, electricity etc etc etc, we live in a world of made up names

Chur bro!…….

[husaberg]

Chur bro!Â…Â….

What i struggle with if everything has to be English on signs, can someone please explain why we have a Dutch name for the country or so many place names that are clearly not the queens Engish.


Ahaura
Ahipara
Ahititi
Ahuroa
Aka Aka
Akaroa
Ä€kitio
Anakiwa
Arahiwi
Aramoana
Aranga
Arapohue
Ä€tiamuri
Awanui
Eket�huna
Hakataramea
Hari Hari
Haruru
Haumoana
Haupiri
H�wera*
Herekino
Hikuai
Hikurangi*
Hikutaia
Hinuera
Hokitika*
Honikiwi
Horeke
Horotiu
Houhora
Huapai*
Huiakama
Huirangi
HÅ«kerenui
Hunua
Inangahua Junction
Kaeo
Kaiapoi*
Kaihu
Kaikohe*
Kaik�ura*
Kaimata
Kaingaroa, Northland
Kaingaroa, Bay of Plenty
Kaipara Flats
Kairaki
Kaitaia*
Kaitangata
Kaiwaka
Kakanui
Kakaramea
Kaniere
Kapiro
Kaponga
Karamea
Karetu
Karitane
Katikati*
Kauaeranga
Kaukapakapa
Kauri
Kawakawa*
Kawerau*
Kekerengu
Kerikeri*
Kihikihi
Kiripaka
Kohukohu
Koitiata
Kokatahi
Kokopu
Koromiko
Kumara
Kumeū*
Kurow
Lake H�wea
Lake Tekapo
Mahurangi West
Makahu
Mamaku
Manaia, Waikato
Manaia, Taranaki
Manakau
Manapouri
Manawahe
Mangakino
Mangamuka
Mangatangi
Mangatawhiri
Mangatoki
Mangawhai*
Manukau
Manurewa
Manutahi
M�pua*
Maraetai*
M�rahau
Maromaku
Maruia
Matakana
Matakohe
Matamata*
Matapu
Matarangi
Matarau
Matat�
Mataura*
Matihetihe
Maungakaramea
Maungatapere
Maungaturoto
Meremere
Mimi
Minginui
Moana
Moawhango
Moenui
Moeraki
Moerewa*
Mokau
Mokoia
Motatau
Motueka*
Motuoapa
Mount Maunganui
Murupara*
Ngaere
Ng�kuta Bay
Ngamatapouri
Ngapara
Ng�ruaw�hia*
Ngataki
Ngatea*
Ngongotah�*
Ngongotah� Valley
Ngunguru*
ÅŒakura*
Oamaru*
ÅŒhaeawai
Ohakune*
Ohangai
Ōhaup�
Ohawe
Ohoka
ÅŒhope*
ÅŒhura
ÅŒkaihau
ÅŒkato
ÅŒkiwi Bay
Okuku
Omaha
Omanaia
Omarama
Omata
ÅŒmokoroa*
Onewhero
Opononi
Ōp�tiki*
Opua*
ÅŒpunake*
Oratia
Orewa
Oromahoe
Oruaiti
Otaika
ÅŒtaki*
Otakou
Otautau
Otematata
Otiria
ÅŒtorohanga*
ÅŒwhango
Owaka
Paek�k�riki*
Paeroa*
Pahiatua*
Paihia*
Pakaraka
Pakiri
Pakotai
Pamapuria
Panguru
Papakura
Papamoa
Paparoa
Paparore
Papatoetoe
Parakai
Paraparaumu*
Paremoremo
Pareora
Parewanui
Paroa
Parua Bay
Patea*
Patumahoe*
Pauanui
P�uatahanui
Peka Peka
Peria
Petone
Piopio
Pipiwai
Pirinoa
Pirongia
P�keno
Porirua*
Poroti
Puhoi
Pukekohe*
Pukepoto
Pukerimu
Pukerua Bay
Puketona
Pukeuri
Punakaiki
Purua
Put�ruru*
Putorino
Raetihi*
Rahotu
Rai Valley
Rakaia*
Ramarama
Rangiora*
Rapaura
R�rangi
Ratapiko
Raumati Beach
Raumati South
Raurimu
Rawene
Rawhitiroa
Renwick*
Reporoa
Riwaka
Rolleston*
Rotorua*
Ruak�k�
Ruatoria
Ruawai
Runanga*
Taharoa
Taieri Mouth
Taihape*
Taipa-Mangonui*
Tairua*
T�kaka*
Tangiteroria
Tangowahine
Tapanui
Tapawera
Tapora
Tapu
Tauhoa
Taumarunui*
Taupaki
Taup�*
Tauranga*
Tauraroa
Tautoro
Te Anau*
Te Arai
Te Aroha*
Te Awamutu*
Te Awanga
Te Hana
Te H�pua
Te Horo
Te Kao
Te Kauwhata*
Te K�puru
Te KÅ«iti*
Te Poi
Te Puke*
Te Puna West
Te Puru
Te Rahu
Te Rerenga
Temuka*
Ti Point
Tikorangi
Timaru*
Tinopai
TÄ«rau
Titoki
Tokanui, Southland
Tokanui, Waikato
Tokarahi
Toko
Tokomaru
Tokoroa*
Tolaga Bay
Tomarata
Towai
Tryphena
Tuahiwi
Tuai
Tuakau*
Tuamarina
Tuatapere
TÅ«rangi*
Turua
Umawera
Upper Moutere
Urenui
Uruti
Waharoa
Waiau
Waiau Pa
Waiharara
Waiheke Island*
Waihi*
Waihi Beach*
Waihola
Waikaia
Waikaka
Waikanae*
Waikawa, Marlborough
Waikawa, Southland
Waikouaiti*
Waikuku
Waikuku Beach
Waim�
Waimangaroa
Waimate*
Waimate North
Waimauku
Wainui
Wainuiomata
Waiomu
Waioneke
Waiotira
Waiouru*
Waipango
Waipawa*
Waipu*
Waipu Cove
Waipukurau*
Wairakei
Wairau Valley
Wairio
Wairoa*
Waitahuna
Waitara*
Waitaria Bay
Waitati
Waitoa
Waitoki
Waitomo
Waitoriki
Wait�tara
Waiuku*
Waiwera
W�naka*
Whakamaru
Whakat�ne*
Whananaki
Whangamat�*
Whangam�mona
Whanganui*
Whangapar�oa*
Whang�rei*
Whang�rei Heads
Whangaruru
Whangateau
Whataroa
Whatuwhiwhi
Whenuakite
Whenuakura
Whiritoa
Whitianga*