PM Chris Hipkins

[BMWST?]

Someone hasn't quite figured out the vote for a party is separate from the vote for an electorate mp.

party or list dosnt matter the proportion of labour MPs in parliament should remain the same as that decided by the electorate. The list mps enable the actual number to be adjusted to make the proportion right

[husaberg]

party or list dosnt matter the proportion of labour MPs in parliament should remain the same as that decided by the electorate. The list mps enable the actual number to be adjusted to make the proportion right

What i am saying is she is an electorate mp, thus her electorate voted for her separate to whatever party she stood for. Thus she actually has a mandate.
tbh i didn't even know who she was....nor will i miss her...

[neels]

What i am saying is she is an electorate mp, thus her electorate voted for her separate to whatever party she stood for. Thus she actually has a mandate.
tbh i didn't even know who she was....nor will i miss her...

In theory that's true, as she has been voted in by the electorate.

What would follow logically with jumping ship from labour to the maori party is that they would then lose their list mp, and labour would get an additional list mp, to maintain the correct proportion as determined by the party vote. Don't think it actually works that way though.

And none of it would be worth bothering this close to an election, for a mp that as you've said that most people have never heard of.

[husaberg]

In theory that's true, as she has been voted in by the electorate.

What would follow logically with jumping ship from labour to the maori party is that they would then lose their list mp, and labour would get an additional list mp, to maintain the correct proportion as determined by the party vote. Don't think it actually works that way though.

And none of it would be worth bothering this close to an election, for a mp that as you've said that most people have never heard of.

Not sure really as its on a percentage of votes, something like one electorate mp and 5% can equal 10 mps in total. Look at ACT or NZF a few elections ago. Like you said too close to next one. Maybe mute if Chippy and Christian Luxton are hitting it off on their date.

edit she's the one they dropped from the front bench as they found she had bullied a staffer, thus no great loss.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political...ident-released

[BMWST?]

What i am saying is she is an electorate mp, thus her electorate voted for her separate to whatever party she stood for. Thus she actually has a mandate.
tbh i didn't even know who she was....nor will i miss her...

thats fine but the issue of the proportion of labour MPs in the house remains(i have no clue who she is either)

[Reckless]

The Maori party are going for the balance of power! KingMaker the media call it.
By the polls they are already in that position
This defection helps that cause greatly, especially if she keeps her seat.

Is this a good thing for the country??

[TheDemonLord]

The Maori party are going for the balance of power! KingMaker the media call it.
By the polls they are already in that position
This defection helps that cause greatly, especially if she keeps her seat.

Is this a good thing for the country??

No. After the disaster that was Winston and Jacinda, I've been convinced that Coalition governments, where the electorate are not given the chance to vote on the coalition itself are an affront to Democracy.

[pritch]

In theory that's true, as she has been voted in by the electorate.

What would follow logically with jumping ship from labour to the maori party is that they would then lose their list mp, and labour would get an additional list mp, to maintain the correct proportion as determined by the party vote. Don't think it actually works that way though.

And none of it would be worth bothering this close to an election, for a mp that as you've said that most people have never heard of.

If she had resigned in writing she would be out and a by election called. The word was that she had written and emailed a resignation but when the consequences were realised there was some high speed back tracking.

[pete376403]

No. After the disaster that was Winston and Jacinda, I've been convinced that Coalition governments, where the electorate are not given the chance to vote on the coalition itself are an affront to Democracy.

Well dont overlook the Coalition that Winston went into with Bolgers National government. Maybe it's not that coalitions are a disaster per se, more to do with the tail that wants to wag the dog.

[R650R]

Well dont overlook the Coalition that Winston went into with Bolgers National government. Maybe it's not that coalitions are a disaster per se, more to do with the tail that wants to wag the dog.

Coalition govts are the multi tasking element of democracy. Studies have been done that multitasking is a myth, even women don’t do it.
In all elements of live we must focus on the core objective st hand otherwise nothing gets done.
You can’t go around completing 70% of what you wanted to do so someone else can accomplish 15% of what they wanted to do.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/60567...ished-Harawira

[TheDemonLord]

Well dont overlook the Coalition that Winston went into with Bolgers National government. Maybe it's not that coalitions are a disaster per se, more to do with the tail that wants to wag the dog.

I think it was JRM that made the comment that Coalitions are negotiated behind closed doors and not voted on by the people. Which to me seems fundamentally opposed to Democracy.

One look at what happened to NZ First would tend to strongly suggest that their voterbase didn't want the to partner with Labour, yet they did.

That said - there is a commonality I notice in the example you give - Winston...

[R650R]

For all his wrong doings... and there are plenty at least he kept them(labour) in check.
And that’s what a lot of NZ first voters want. They prob hold centrist views and like a bit of both Nat and labour policies but don’t want them to be let run wild.
Case in point is Labour’s disastrous second term under “full power”, went complete batshit crazy and let economy turn into a flaming blowtorch of destruction against homeownership/inflation/cost of living. So drunk on power they even let unneeded greens have seats at the table.
Winston is what Winston is but he’s one of the loudest anti co-governance voices and for that I’ll still hear him out.
Winston in govt is like the second lieutenant on a nuke sub required to turn his key to launch missile.

[TheDemonLord]

For all his wrong doings... and there are plenty at least he kept them(labour) in check.
And that’s what a lot of NZ first voters want. They prob hold centrist views and like a bit of both Nat and labour policies but don’t want them to be let run wild.
Case in point is Labour’s disastrous second term under “full power”, went complete batshit crazy and let economy turn into a flaming blowtorch of destruction against homeownership/inflation/cost of living. So drunk on power they even let unneeded greens have seats at the table.
Winston is what Winston is but he’s one of the loudest anti co-governance voices and for that I’ll still hear him out.
Winston in govt is like the second lieutenant on a nuke sub required to turn his key to launch missile.

D'yah know how he would have actually kept Labour in check?

By forming a coalition with National and Act.

I've heard this argument before in various guises - but it's something like:

"If I'm a passenger in a car that's heading towards a Cliff, I don't want the driver to slow down, I want the driver to turn around"

And the best bit is that the NZ First voters agreed with me. They went to ACT and NZ First got booted out of Parliament. I know Winston is trying to stage a comeback and be all like 'I told you this would happen' - but every time he says this, the replies are always 'This is your fault'.

[husaberg]

Well dont overlook the Coalition that Winston went into with Bolgers National government. Maybe it's not that coalitions are a disaster per se, more to do with the tail that wants to wag the dog.

Some also tend to over look any collation with act, the maori party, maui pacific, national or any other suitor they have had... you know, due to balance....or lack their off.

[R650R]

Screw you chippy. I gave you and Robertson the benefit of the doubt. I thought in face of a looming election you would do a decent budget. But no there’s 10 billion of new inflationary spending that’s just cost me about 0.5% on my home loan update.
I can take that hit but boy I feel sorry for those not so well off. There’s pain coming for many I hope they vote accordingly….