New zealand refugee quota

[pritch]

. They are fleeing mostly socialist dictatorships in most instances.

You must have a different definition of socialist to my dictionary. Most seem to be fleeing Muslim countries which are not socialist. Others are fleeing African countries run by African forms of government most of which are loosely based on those of their former colonial occupiers.

[TheDemonLord]

You must have a different definition of socialist to my dictionary. Most seem to be fleeing Muslim countries which are not socialist.

Errrrr Arab Socialism is *definitely* a thing

- Iraq (Saddamn Hussein)
- Syria (Assad)
- Egypt (Mubarak)

I could go on.

Others are fleeing African countries run by African forms of government most of which are loosely based on those of their former colonial occupiers.

And African Socialism is *also* a definite thing.

Best example would be South Africa and the ANC.

But other examples include the Congo, Zimbabwe, Rwanda.

[pritch]

Errrrr Arab Socialism is *definitely* a thing

- Iraq (Saddamn Hussein)
- Syria (Assad)
- Egypt (Mubarak)

I could go on.



And African Socialism is *also* a definite thing.

Best example would be South Africa and the ANC.

But other examples include the Congo, Zimbabwe, Rwanda.

Those Arab counties would only be considered socialist by someone who sees socialists under their bed. Oh wait!

Also to the best of my knowledge the many people crossing the Med to get to Europe from Africa come from further north than the African countries you mention, so whatever colour their politics may be they are irrelevant.

[BMWST?]

Dictator-like power (voted in democratically).

Not a Dictatorship.

Bit of the ol' bait and switch going on.

The US is not a democracy. It is a Republic. The electoral college means it is not 1 man 1 Vote

[pete376403]

The US is not a democracy. It is a Republic. The electoral college means it is not 1 man 1 Vote

A thought about that. If the presidential candidate selects a person to be vice presidential candidate before the election, then, if following the election, the president dies (eg like lincoln, kennedy and hopefully drumpf), when the VP takes over the role, does that mean the US ends up with an unelected president?

[TheDemonLord]

Those Arab counties would only be considered socialist by someone who sees socialists under their bed. Oh wait!

Except they described themselves as Arab Socialists.

Look up the Ba'ath party.

This is not what I see them as.

Also to the best of my knowledge the many people crossing the Med to get to Europe from Africa come from further north than the African countries you mention, so whatever colour their politics may be they are irrelevant.

Like Libya? Which was socialist under Gaddafi?
Or Algeria?

[pete376403]

Except they described themselves as Arab Socialists.

Look up the Ba'ath party.

This is not what I see them as.


Like Libya? Which was socialist under Gaddafi?
Or Algeria?

Although he had his moments Libya under gaddafi wasn''t all that bad eg Gaddafi's regime opened up a wide range of educational and employment opportunities for women, although these primarily benefited a minority in the urban middle-classes. From 1969 to 1973, it used oil money to fund social welfare programs, which led to housebuilding projects and improved healthcare and education. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muamma...nd%20education.) Then the "west" supported the overthrow leading to the carnage of today. Similarly Iran was performing pretty ok until the US destabilised the government, reinstating the shah with all his excesses and leading to the religious fundies taking over. Seems all the countries that are so fucked up that people want to flee are, mainly, ones that european nations, especially britain, colonised and plundered, then pulled out leaving a power vacuum to be exploited.

[R650R]

Although he had his moments Libya under gaddafi wasn''t all that bad eg Gaddafi's regime opened up a wide range of educational and employment opportunities for women, although these primarily benefited a minority in the urban middle-classes. From 1969 to 1973, it used oil money to fund social welfare programs, which led to housebuilding projects and improved healthcare and education. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muamma...nd%20education.) Then the "west" supported the overthrow leading to the carnage of today. Similarly Iran was performing pretty ok until the US destabilised the government, reinstating the shah with all his excesses and leading to the religious fundies taking over. Seems all the countries that are so fucked up that people want to flee are, mainly, ones that european nations, especially britain, colonised and plundered, then pulled out leaving a power vacuum to be exploited.

Yep if you want to know the real reason the west took him out, check out the massive water project he was working on. There was a pipeline being built to use a huge aquifer to make Libya the bread basket of Middle East and he had a plan for an Arab gold backed currency.
As you can understand having an independent nation in that part of world with its own water, food, finance and energy security would upset certain foriegn policy objectives…,
About 20 years ago local library had a copy of his book in English the “green book”. He detailed his plans for the future perhaps a little too well.
As well as bring ahead of the BRICS game he also smoked the left on the defund the police game.
He envisioned what we would call vigilante justice where the community would instantly take care of a thief in local markets negating need for costly police and justice systems.
It’s well worth a read if you can find a copy that hasn’t been burnt..,,

[Berries]

Seems all the countries that are so fucked up that people want to flee are, mainly, ones that european nations, especially britain, colonised and plundered, then pulled out leaving a power vacuum to be exploited.

Yes, there is a lot to be said for the Empire. Perhaps Team GB should go back to the old ways to save the world from itself.

Would resolve all this treaty bullshit quick smart.

[TheDemonLord]

Although he had his moments Libya under gaddafi wasn''t all that bad eg Gaddafi's regime opened up a wide range of educational and employment opportunities for women, although these primarily benefited a minority in the urban middle-classes. From 1969 to 1973, it used oil money to fund social welfare programs, which led to housebuilding projects and improved healthcare and education. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muamma...nd%20education.) Then the "west" supported the overthrow leading to the carnage of today. Similarly Iran was performing pretty ok until the US destabilised the government, reinstating the shah with all his excesses and leading to the religious fundies taking over. Seems all the countries that are so fucked up that people want to flee are, mainly, ones that european nations, especially britain, colonised and plundered, then pulled out leaving a power vacuum to be exploited.

Had his Moments - I mean, the good people of Lockerbie would say it was more than just his moments...

But sure - he was a complex individual and there is much to be said about American interference...

However - my point remains - Libya under Gaddafi was ostensibly a Socialist State and after 1973 (4 years after the revolution, presumably when all the money ran out - like it always does with Socialism) the Economic reforms nose-dived.

Arab Socialism, Islamic Socialism and African Socialism has its fingerprints over a good number of countries, it is not a mere flight of my fancy, this is their self-declared political position.

The last part though - this is the common Left-Wing trope, it is economically illiterate (if the Left understood economics, they wouldnt be on the left...) and historically illiterate.

Yes, Britain colonised - and the places (America, Canada, Australia, NZ) where the British way of doing things has persisted, those countries are prosperous.

The ones where certain British ideals were rejected (pretty much every where else) suffered the consequences of rejecting them.

[TheDemonLord]

Yes, there is a lot to be said for the Empire. Perhaps Team GB should go back to the old ways to save the world from itself.

Would resolve all this treaty bullshit quick smart.

Well, not the current Team GB - Keir Starmer is a disgrace. And the Tories arent much better.

[Jantar]

A thought about that. If the presidential candidate selects a person to be vice presidential candidate before the election, then, if following the election, the president dies (eg like lincoln, kennedy and hopefully drumpf), when the VP takes over the role, does that mean the US ends up with an unelected president?

Yes, that is exactly what happens.

[R650R]

Yes, there is a lot to be said for the Empire. Perhaps Team GB should go back to the old ways to save the world from itself..

Isn’t colonialism just refugeeism on steroids???? A whole lot of people coming from somewhere else and saying hey we want you to incorporate our ideals into your society???

Anyhow we should just consider ourselves fortunate that we weren’t colonised by the French, Chinese or Spanish instead, things would have been very different….

Incidentally the Russians were here in pre treaty times and traded with Maori successfully. If you’re suffering a rare ferry delay in Picton the small museum has some great info on this. It seems the Russians of time weren’t interested in new outposts just doing trade and learning from others. Oh and they have a whale harpoon cannon and scale model diorama of whale being speared. Go see it before it’s banned lol

[F5 Dave]

I can't read most of the contributors causing the backlash. Unless quoted.

But I would suggest that they learn some ficking history.

Also, learn what Socialism and Communism are. Spoiler, always ends up as Totalitarian Hell for common people.

Communism is a failed Social experiment, Kippered by human Greed and Ego.

BTW, Capitalism can produce exactly the same results allowed to be taken to the same extreme.

That's why we need a balanced approach.

And yes, only four beers in, the most intelligent post on KB thus far.

Don't worry, I'll be back in another four to negate that brilliance.

Actually, no I'll unsubscribe. Some real dingle danglers are posting here, even if they are already on ignore, they will continue to double down with rubbish.

[Berries]

Well, not the current Team GB - Keir Starmer is a disgrace. And the Tories arent much better.

Was thinking of petitioning for the reinstatement of the East India Company.

Have just read Nathaniel's Nutmeg. A pretty good treatise on how to deal with johnny foreigner. Pretty sure you would find it interesting.