RUC charges for all petrol vehicles by 2027

[nerrrd]

Do we think they can pull this off? If so, do we think motorcycles could be exempt? I note that despite RNZ using 'cars' in the headline, Brown uses 'all light vehicles' in the quotation below.

Speaking at the Building Nations conference in Auckland on Thursday, Transport Minister Simeon Brown announced a roadmap for moving all light vehicles to the RUC system and away from fuel tax.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political...rges-from-2027

[jellywrestler]

exempt, why, are you special needs? The north of auckland toll roads charge the same for bikes as cars so no real chance.

[BMWST?]

I dont know how they could do it . Its a manual system at the moment and i suspect there is a fair ammout of evasion going on..Ie disconnected odometers,and people risking driving without current RUC. I dont know if their is a checking system because there is no mileage check at the time of buying.
If all of a sudden there are millions more people wanting to buy ruc then the "shops" and the online system just couldnt handle it.
They will have to bring in some more classes i think. The current initial step is up to 3.5 tonnes. I think they need at least a couple of classes under that.
The AA are complaining that less fuel efficient vehicles are punished under the current system...what? that IS fair in my opinion. The new RUC could be based on more criteria than just weight,but I just cant see how they can implement it. It would have to be an automatic system but that will introduce its own set of challenges.
Petrol at the pump will go down heaps overnight.We might need front numberplates

[nerrrd]

exempt, why, are you special needs? The north of auckland toll roads charge the same for bikes as cars so no real chance.

Arguably, but if the driving force behind this is 'fairness' (also arguable), how are they going to define what's fair? What constitutes 'fair use' of the road for private users and will the type of vehicle involved be a consideration.

Same question will be coming up with congestion charges for those of us lucky enough to live in New Zealand's bustling metropolises.

With tolls are you paying to use the road or paying for the cost of building it (given they're only on new roads)?

[BMWST?]

With tolls are you paying to use the road or paying for the cost of building it (given they're only on new roads)?

Building it by paying to use it. Use the existing road and avoid the toll cos the road has already been paid for and you pay through your new RUC for the upkeep

[R650R]

I’ve been warning you all for ages this was coming, this is just the start.
What makes me laugh is the amount of people in news comments who think they are just going to delete their speedo cable line diesel owners do.
This will all be done via an app on your phone or ANPR cameras.
At least Nats are being honest and calling it a tax straight up, labour/greens would have done this eventually but called it carbon tax.

[pritch]

I dont know how they could do it . Its a manual system at the moment and i suspect there is a fair ammout of evasion going on..Ie disconnected odometers,and people risking driving without current RUC. I dont know if their is a checking system because there is no mileage check at the time of buying.
If all of a sudden there are millions more people wanting to buy ruc then the "shops" and the online system just couldnt handle it.
They will have to bring in some more classes i think. The current initial step is up to 3.5 tonnes. I think they need at least a couple of classes under that.
The AA are complaining that less fuel efficient vehicles are punished under the current system...what? that IS fair in my opinion. The new RUC could be based on more criteria than just weight,but I just cant see how they can implement it. It would have to be an automatic system but that will introduce its own set of challenges.
Petrol at the pump will go down heaps overnight.We might need front numberplates

Paying the tax at the pump is simple and relatively painless. Paying RUCs is not as simple and requires lump sum payments. Families with multiple vehicles will feel the pain. The Police don't have the staff to check that the charges have been paid so after the initial enthusiasm the only time it would be checked would be if the vehicle had been stopped for something else. That could lead to a high level of non compliance

One of the criteria for a tax is that it should be easily collectible. The current system wins in that regard.

[BMWST?]

I’ve been warning you all for ages this was coming, this is just the start.
What makes me laugh is the amount of people in news comments who think they are just going to delete their speedo cable line diesel owners do.
This will all be done via an app on your phone or ANPR cameras.
At least Nats are being honest and calling it a tax straight up, labour/greens would have done this eventually but called it carbon tax.

speedo cables?

[R650R]

I dont know how they could do it . Its a manual system at the moment and i suspect there is a fair ammout of evasion going on..Ie disconnected odometers,and people risking driving without current RUC. I dont know if their is a checking system because there is no mileage check at the time of buying.
If all of a sudden there are millions more people wanting to buy ruc then the "shops" and the online system just couldnt handle it.
They will have to bring in some more classes i think. The current initial step is up to 3.5 tonnes. I think they need at least a couple of classes under that.
The AA are complaining that less fuel efficient vehicles are punished under the current system...what? that IS fair in my opinion. The new RUC could be based on more criteria than just weight,but I just cant see how they can implement it. It would have to be an automatic system but that will introduce its own set of challenges.
Petrol at the pump will go down heaps overnight.We might need front numberplates

Initially could be by ANPR cameras or a small electronic tag that is remotely read by over head signpost. This is already proven implanted technology in other countries.
Quite likely though is a phone app given NZTA recent enthusiasm for developing the app where you store all your vehicle details just “ help you manage your rego fees”….
Covid set precedent for govt to force (effectively) you to install an app on your phone.
You will enter your bank details to pay automatically tolls and fines because app will also detect speeding via location services.
One silver lining is we could make cyclists pay as well. They already use an app called Strava that is super accurate, they have already mapped out most roads already.
Just like covid though they won’t throw it all on us at once. First it’s just the tolls later the speed detecting and driver identification factors will be added to reduce police workload and to “protect the community”.
Welcome to 1984 in 2024, about 40 years late but hey who said govts were ever efficient at implementation.

[R650R]

Paying the tax at the pump is simple and relatively painless. Paying RUCs is not as simple and requires lump sum payments. Families with multiple vehicles will feel the pain. The Police don't have the staff to check that the charges have been paid so after the initial enthusiasm the only time it would be checked would be if the vehicle had been stopped for something else. That could lead to a high level of non compliance

One of the criteria for a tax is that it should be easily collectible. The current system wins in that regard.

Police won’t be involved except when CCTV detects a non compliant vehicle. Most people will comply despite what they say. Just look back at Covid where many people said they won’t force me to wear a mask/scan in everywhere/take jab. When it finally came there was pretty much close to 100% compliance of some major challenges to individual freedoms.
What ever technology is used to implement it (see my other post) will be checked on your vehicle at WOF time. Just like trucks police can’t stop all of them but major penalties see pretty good compliance these days as technology of cctv and electronic records makes it easier to detect.
There is no easy out we will all pay up whether we like it or not

[pete376403]

Initially could be by ANPR cameras or a small electronic tag that is remotely read by over head signpost. This is already proven implanted technology in other countries.
Quite likely though is a phone app given NZTA recent enthusiasm for developing the app where you store all your vehicle details just “ help you manage your rego fees”….
Covid set precedent for govt to force (effectively) you to install an app on your phone.
You will enter your bank details to pay automatically tolls and fines because app will also detect speeding via location services.
One silver lining is we could make cyclists pay as well. They already use an app called Strava that is super accurate, they have already mapped out most roads already.
Just like covid though they won’t throw it all on us at once. First it’s just the tolls later the speed detecting and driver identification factors will be added to reduce police workload and to “protect the community”.
Welcome to 1984 in 2024, about 40 years late but hey who said govts were ever efficient at implementation.

Yes I could see this coming but there are a few "buts" - what if you dont use a mobile phone ? What if you had multiple bank accounts, and the linked one permanently has insufficient funds? Looking at previous government (of both stripes) attempts to develop software applications that work, what are the chances of them making this work ? Why not just put road tax onto diesel, and left non road users (ie farmers) claim it back?

[onearmedbandit]

I’ve been warning you all for ages this was coming, this is just the start.
What makes me laugh is the amount of people in news comments who think they are just going to delete their speedo cable line diesel owners do.
This will all be done via an app on your phone or ANPR cameras.
At least Nats are being honest and calling it a tax straight up, labour/greens would have done this eventually but called it carbon tax.

It's been talked about for a couple years now, everyone has heard about it whether they know of you or not. On the issue of a phone app, what, are they going to make it a law that you must travel with your mobile device everywhere you drive/ride?

[nerrrd]

Extending the manual system does seem, frankly, a stupid way to go, given you'll be giving up a simple, guaranteed income stream for one dependent on how well it's administered and how much compliance there is.

A digital system is going to cost hundreds of millions to set up and maintain, if it's even possible to do that reliably (and legally). I'm sure any number of IT consultants will be telling the government that it can be done, as per the usual over-promise-and-sort-the-details-out-later IT business model.

Either way, if they do manage to bring it in, I guess paying a flat 'private use' rate regardless of vehicle type is probably the most likely outcome. Sigh.

[R650R]

It's been talked about for a couple years now, everyone has heard about it whether they know of you or not. On the issue of a phone app, what, are they going to make it a law that you must travel with your mobile device everywhere you drive/ride?

They don’t have to. Just like Covid it became cumbersome to do the manual method of signing a book it became easier to point your phone at the sign.
Going to the movies no one prints ticket out you show your email screen shot of tickets etc.
It’s default human behaviour for vast majority to carry phone everywhere.
The alternative could be an Apple air tag type device mounted to vehicle but really it doesn’t matter. There’s a range of technology based solutions out there Eroad system on trucks great example of proven system in use.

[onearmedbandit]

You're right, it doesn't matter, there is plenty of tech available, but I doubt a compulsory phone app is the way it will be handled.