MotoGP 2025

[BMWST?]

Dunno. There is no doubt Toprak has the talent. He is seemingly able to outbrake anyone. But there is so much talk about how different motgp bikes are to superbikes. And I can only think of Ben Spies who was able to show real promise on a Motgp bike. The learnig of the bikes AND new tyres . He will have a lot to learn in 26 and then again in 27 when the bikes AND tyres change again. He wont have much time i feel. AND on top of that the Yamaha itself is behind the 8 ball. I do not beleive that the V4 in itself will help much

[F5 Dave]

I think he will find it hard going to get midfield. He's a big fish of a small pond. But motogp is comparatively the ocean. He'll get near to MM in the press briefing but that's about it.
Braking will be quite different on a small comparatively light stiff chassis bike with carbon rotors and different tyres.
He'll probably lose his Mojo on Michelins and struggle to dig deeper in 2027.
At best I think he's a year early.

[diesel pig]

It will be interesting to see wither Toprak was a Big fish in a small pond(WSB champion) or the real thing(MotoGP front runner). But like I said I don't think we will see that until the second year after he has a first year to settle in to MotoGP and everybody is on new tires in the second year.

[iYRe]

On the Race motoGp podcast they were talking about whether it is MM genius or risk taking ability that sets him apart. One guy said a sort of yes and no, all riders ride on the line, but MM has the ability to know which warnings to ignore and which to heed. He also said the only other guy on the grid who can do this is Jack Miller - both of them dont crash any more in extreme conditions compared to others who fall off repeatedly in bad conditions. I'm paraphrasing not quite getting the nuance but I think you get what he means.

I thought that was an interesting thing. Its here:
https://youtu.be/U3hBakYu3OM?t=3275

[BMWST?]

On the Race motoGp podcast they were talking about whether it is MM genius or risk taking ability that sets him apart. One guy said a sort of yes and no, all riders ride on the line, but MM has the ability to know which warnings to ignore and which to heed. He also said the only other guy on the grid who can do this is Jack Miller - both of them dont crash any more in extreme conditions compared to others who fall off repeatedly in bad conditions. I'm paraphrasing not quite getting the nuance but I think you get what he means.

I thought that was an interesting thing. Its here:
https://youtu.be/U3hBakYu3OM?t=3275

I have a theory that MM has unbeilevable reaction times. Also right from the beginning he seems to be able to change direction really really fast.

[sugilite:Me]

Yep, MM has always been an incredible force of nature right from when he burst onto the racing scene in moto3, 2 and motogp. However, now he has evolved into pretty much a complete rider in near every conceivable metric within the motogp scene. I was not a fan initially when he was seemingly continually running into and knocking opponents of their bikes, then the Rossi feud. Now I greatly admire the rider and man he has become.

I just hope a rider or two rise to the top and give him a good run for next years championship - he deserves his time in the sun this years total domination after all the shit he had to wade through over the last 4 or 5 years.

[F5 Dave]

Agreed and for the same reasons.

[F5 Dave]

I have a theory that MM has unbeilevable reaction times. Also right from the beginning he seems to be able to change direction really really fast.

Your theory is probably part of the story.

Another part is various crew chiefs have said the thing that separate the really special (aliens) is they seem to have a higher cpu speed. The ability to cope with what is going on and predict what the bike is about to do before it does it and then how to compensate. As well as see what an opponent is doing and strategise to counter.

But I also have a theory that goes beyond that I'll get to.

[F5 Dave]

Ok so starting with eyes. I read an article eons ago that measured top athletes and their eyes were just better, not just in accurate vision, but in the ability to focus quickly and create a more accurate 3D model. (Eddie Lawson was amongst the very best the researcher had measured, so yes an old article).

But I’ve been thinking about that more. As you age some people are affected more than others with balance and spatial awareness. Cat’s have the same inner ear level sensors. Just they are better than ours. They make us look like monkeys. Actually devolved monkeys.

People with head injuries are often affected more by their senses (sensors) not reporting as accurately or quickly as before.

What if what they are experiencing is a regression on a spectrum of ability that we are all on?

Some people are just great at any sport they turn their hand to. Some take ages to get proficient. Some people you ride with you wonder what is going through their heads for the mistakes they make?

What if what they are experiencing is that the information that makes it to the CPU is distorted. Late. Coming in in buffer-er-er-ed batches. And its not quite in the right order. . .

There are likely many factors that affect performance of the human. The occasional few have the stars aligned and tick the top category of many boxes.

[iYRe]

I play bass guitar, and I have decent rhythm and pretty good feel. The "feel" is natural, but it isnt "supernatural" for me, but the more I play the better it gets. But, I am not fast, and I dont have the skills or feel of Jaco Pastorius, or James Jamerson, or Sting - I never will have. I have had to sit and practice scales, riffs, songs over and over, for hours and hours and I'm just "ok'.
My mate Russ plays guitar, and he hardly practices or anything, but he can chuck on a Van Halen record and learn all the songs in a day - then go on stage any play them without any effects other than just basic distortion. He is an "alien" - I've played with a lot of good guitarists, some with degrees in music, some even remotely famous, but none can do what Russ does..
Some people are good, some work hard and are "better" - and some people are just born with some instinct that enables them to do absolute magic.

Another analogy - I played in the First XV at school. We had a lot of rep players but one was this guy called Kelly Shelford (league folks will know the name). I never saw the guy break out of a jog, but he could just move through the opposition like a ghost. Kelly was an alien, like Christian Cullen or Will Jordan.

[diesel pig]

Ok so starting with eyes. I read an article eons ago that measured top athletes and their eyes were just better, not just in accurate vision, but in the ability to focus quickly and create a more accurate 3D model. (Eddie Lawson was amongst the very best the researcher had measured, so yes an old article).

But I’ve been thinking about that more. As you age some people are affected more than others with balance and spatial awareness. Cat’s have the same inner ear level sensors. Just they are better than ours. They make us look like monkeys. Actually devolved monkeys.

People with head injuries are often affected more by their senses (sensors) not reporting as accurately or quickly as before.

What if what they are experiencing is a regression on a spectrum of ability that we are all on?

Some people are just great at any sport they turn their hand to. Some take ages to get proficient. Some people you ride with you wonder what is going through their heads for the mistakes they make?

What if what they are experiencing is that the information that makes it to the CPU is distorted. Late. Coming in in buffer-er-er-ed batches. And its not quite in the right order. . .

There are likely many factors that affect performance of the human. The occasional few have the stars aligned and tick the top category of many boxes.

I was going to talk about this but you have done a much better job of it. Is it possible to hate and be impressed by somebody by the exactly same amount? asking for a mate not me at all.

[Reckless]

I was going to talk about this but you have done a much better job of it. Is it possible to hate and be impressed by somebody by the exactly same amount? asking for a mate not me at all.

The faster guys in our class I will never have the skill level to match, given that I will never stop trying.
Like 4 secs per lap eg Paul Pav or Sean Donnelly not to mention the young ring ins that race at the classic on the xr69s etc.
But these very same guys have supported and helped me more than they ever had to. Not just at the track they have become friends.
Because I started racing at 60 and only been racing 7 years, I will never have the expertise to challenge them.
I wonder what might have been if I had started at 20 but also wonder if I would ever have had what they have.
I keep chasing Hp and handling but its not really that, its me LOL
I race in the top 6-10 when everyone turns up and top 4-6 if I get lucky in the top F1 post classic class, but there is generally a gap to 1,2-3.
I'd die a happy man if I ever got a podium at any Race meeting.

So yes to your question, very much so!
I hate the fact I cant seem to find the ability to match the podium guys and am so impressed with the skill and unselfishness of those very same people, to use your words.

Woulda coulda shoulda LOL
But happy to be punting 200kg and 160hp whereever we may end up, as long as it is not the kitty litter

[pete376403]

Ok so starting with eyes. I read an article eons ago that measured top athletes and their eyes were just better, not just in accurate vision, but in the ability to focus quickly and create a more accurate 3D model. (Eddie Lawson was amongst the very best the researcher had measured, so yes an old article)..

Cycle magazine. I recall one of the riders tested - might have been Lawson -had 20/30 vision where the normal very best is 20/20. Bruce Penhall was another of the racers

[F5 Dave]

Cycle magazine. I recall one of the riders tested - might have been Lawson -had 20/30 vision where the normal very best is 20/20. Bruce Penhall was another of the racers

Yes it was Cycle magazine. The author did some training and one day stepped outside to 3D which he hadn't noticed before.
Mike Bell MX guy was another.

20/20 is average. I'm better with my contacts on.

But that's only part of how you use your eyes.

[jato]

good post Dave, i haven't been on a track for a while but when you are 20 something you can see good detail of the surface, your competitor's rear shock working and the girl in the blue top watching down by the sweeper. these days i'd probably just see a grey blur ...