Ceramic ball bearings

[diesel pig]

Ok MicoBlue Bearings can only do 3 of the 5 bearings I need for the 2 wheels and cush drive if wish to do a set up for lowest rolling resistance possible. So do I get the three MicoBlue bears and 2 of the best steel bearing I can get. Or do I get a whole other brands set up of 5 CERAMIC BALL BEARINGS from some where else? Is there anyone else I can could trust for good motorcycle wheel CERAMIC BALL BEARINGS? Any thoughts on the matter would be helpful. Cheers

[pete376403]

May be expensive to keep changing the bearings in order to maintain the initial low friction: "An often neglected part of tribology is how a bearing responds as it wears out. The graph below shows a comparison between two steel bearings (SKF and NTN) and a Ceramic bearing (Enduro). Initially the Enduro bearing has lower friction, at around 600km of use, the ceramic bearing has worn a track into the comparatively soft steel races and the bearing friction starts to increase dramatically. It is comfortably higher than steel bearings after a modest running in period. Hybrid ceramic bearings are the equivalent of trying to run a locomotive on an asphalt road – the hardness differential causes the road (raceway) to become damaged." https://www.hambini.com/ceramic-bear...ring-analysis/

[diesel pig]

May be expensive to keep changing the bearings in order to maintain the initial low friction: "An often neglected part of tribology is how a bearing responds as it wears out. The graph below shows a comparison between two steel bearings (SKF and NTN) and a Ceramic bearing (Enduro). Initially the Enduro bearing has lower friction, at around 600km of use, the ceramic bearing has worn a track into the comparatively soft steel races and the bearing friction starts to increase dramatically. It is comfortably higher than steel bearings after a modest running in period. Hybrid ceramic bearings are the equivalent of trying to run a locomotive on an asphalt road – the hardness differential causes the road (raceway) to become damaged." https://www.hambini.com/ceramic-bear...ring-analysis/

Well that is very interresting. I think I would be better for me to get MicroBlue coated steel ball bearings as I would want them for a motorbike I would be touring with. If it was a racebike that would be a different story.

[husaberg]

If you want to go whole hog DP, remove the wheel bearing integral seals and replace other wheel seals with teflon. Coat the axels with some clever ti coating
but honestly you will gain more with less sticky thinner tires pumped up tp 40 psi and eating less pies... some gains are not worth the pain
Bradley's first design book offers good advice on what aero actually works.

[F5 Dave]

Sorry how is this going to be noticeable on a touring bike?
I didn't even bother pulling the seals off, washing the bearings of grease and oiling the bearings every morning. Too much hassle on a racebike, but several production racer did it.

Brake drag and gritty chain will make more difference. You could run intelijet kits on carbs with an egt so you adjust the mixture from your seat during the ride. But why bother?

[SaferRides]

The bearing seals cause more drag than bearing type. Pop the seals off a ball bearing to see how much difference it makes.

Sent from my SM-S938B using Tapatalk

[diesel pig]

I will have to go over the parts book and work out how many seals there are on each wheel. I would want sealed from dirt ingress but not over seal it. Much to think about. Cheers

[F5 Dave]

So what is the End Game here?

Chasing 0.05% here and there could net you maybe a 1% gain over a well maintained bike. At what expense vs extra petrol?

Reduced brake drag, oiled chain and adopting a permanent racing crouch would do far more. Try skipping breakfast, carry no spare change, take out the toolkit and polish your leathers.

[pete376403]

I will have to go over the parts book and work out how many seals there are on each wheel. I would want sealed from dirt ingress but over seal it. Much to think about. Cheers

Should only be single side seals - facing out. Front wheel will have two bearings, rear will have 4 - two in the wheel and two in the cush drive. You could go for shielded rather than sealed, but expect to spend more time on maintenance. What is you intended use for the bike? any off-road will surely demand sealed or your projected saving will be cancelled by carrying spare bearings and tools to change them

[diesel pig]

So what is the End Game here?

Chasing 0.05% here and there could net you maybe a 1% gain over a well maintained bike. At what expense vs extra petrol?

Reduced brake drag, oiled chain and adopting a permanent racing crouch would do far more. Try skipping breakfast, carry no spare change, take out the toolkit and polish your leathers.

I will be fitting a scottoiler (I am pretty sure of that now) setting the brakes up for little to no drag as well. This is more about not throwing that away by having badly set up and high rolling resistance wheels.
As for the Aero you lot keep going on about, I intend to do a rest-o-mod type of deal where she will look from the outside like a '71 machine with any mods looking from the outside like they were done no later than '75.
That's why I was interested in ceramic bearings because from the outside one couldn't tell if they were being used.

P.S. Just to add to what I was saying about the rest-o-moding, I think if I get a new type of E-scottoiler , I could hide away 95% of it behind the frame work with the only visible part being the tube that oiled the chain and I think I could do that in way that was only visible if one really went looking.

P.S. to that P.S. does this all really matter? No not really. But it matters to me, and that is the only person I am trying to please, I enjoy waffling about it to others that don't seem to mind me posting about it. Cheers

[diesel pig]

Should only be single side seals - facing out. Front wheel will have two bearings, rear will have 4 - two in the wheel and two in the cush drive. You could go for shielded rather than sealed, but expect to spend more time on maintenance. What is you intended use for the bike? any off-road will surely demand sealed or your projected saving will be cancelled by carrying spare bearings and tools to change them

No off roading as such but I don't want to be afraid to ride it down a shingle Road. You make a good point about the seals. Do I want to ditch the original wheel seals and use the seals on the outside face of the bearings? or ditch the bearings seals and get new wheel seals? The reason I am going on about this now, is I intend to have the wheels re-laced with Alloy rims (something that more matured riders assured me happen often in the 70's so should work well with the whole rest-o-modding thing) and the Hubs lightly polished, so I thought I would replace the bearings as well and since I don't want to do it again if possible, I thought I would do the best job I could.

P.S. I just had a thought. If the consensus is use the bearing seals. I could sand down the lips of the original wheel seals so they cannot genearate any drag but look like it is still straight out of '71.

[F5 Dave]

Your original wheel seals are best defense against water and grit getting in. I'd leave them the same but new on good surface with grease.

[husaberg]

I will be fitting a scottoiler (I am pretty sure of that now) setting the brakes up for little to no drag as well. This is more about not throwing that away by having badly set up and high rolling resistance wheels.
As for the Aero you lot keep going on about, I intend to do a rest-o-mod type of deal where she will look from the outside like a '71 machine with any mods looking from the outside like they were done no later than '75.
That's why I was interested in ceramic bearings because from the outside one couldn't tell if they were being used.

P.S. Just to add to what I was saying about the rest-o-moding, I think if I get a new type of E-scottoiler , I could hide away 95% of it behind the frame work with the only visible part being the tube that oiled the chain and I think I could do that in way that was only visible if one really went looking.

P.S. to that P.S. does this all really matter? No not really. But it matters to me, and that is the only person I am trying to please, I enjoy waffling about it to others that don't seem to mind me posting about it. Cheers

You do you we are just giving you shit..
I have this mag.... tells how to lighten crank and add tz bearings .... triump truztons and velos and bsa had fairing in the late 60's not my style i like the TZ look.
https://magazine.cycleworld.com/arti...a-step-further
ps diving down rabbit holes is fun....
Francis beart who prepared bikes in the 50-70 normally aermacchi or manx's, He used the work on the wheel until they would spin for hours hundreds of hours of tiny changes ,fork a 1/2 inch lower subframe a 1/4 inch lower bolts drill out he used carbon fibre for fairings i early 70's late 60;s thin paint dimple drilling side covers... pure porn...

[diesel pig]

Your original wheel seals are best defense against water and grit getting in. I'd leave them the same but new on good surface with grease.

Thanks to the internet I have have found out Suzuki T350's and T500's don't just look similar, they use alot of similar parts and in alot of cases the exact same parts. With T500's still being popular in the UK and somewhat popular in the USA it maybe still possible to get a lot parts for them. So I will go looking for some wheel seals. If I can get some new seals, I will go with H/Q steel bearings.

[diesel pig]

Oh S..T, I just thought when I get O-rings, I don't go to local bike dealers to get them. I go to a local O-ring whole saler. They always have what I want. Is it the same deal with seals? or is that too specialised?