MotoGP

[pete376403]

Agostini as best ever rider? Most wins maybe, but when Ago was in his glory days at MV, what was the opposition riding - mainly Manx Nortons. When other riders started to get equal machinery, he wasn't so invincible then.
Best ever rider had to be Hailwood, winning on largely unrideable things like the Honda 4s and 6s

[SPman]

Best ever rider had to be Hailwood, winning on largely unrideable things like the Honda 4s and 6s

The 500 was diabolical but the 6's apparently werent too bad. Hailwood def. better than Ago overall. Rossi best of the modern day riders, definitely. Best ever? How can you judge? Different eras, different situations, but, like the very best, he can hop on a lesser bike and make it perform well.At this level it boils down to personal preference I guess..the best of the best group!
Without the season actually starting he's already got Honda running scared so.....!:confused2

[merv]

You two above seem to be forgetting Ago's switch to Yamaha two strokes and the further world championships he attained let alone the Daytona win. Now Rossi has achieved it the other way going from 2 stroke to 4 stroke. Remember also Ago was younger than Hailwood so his days weren't really about beating Manx Nortons but more about beating Hailwood on the Hondas when Mike left MV. The only time Ago got a bit of a holiday was from 68-72 when the main Jap opposition disappeared and he had to contend with people like our Ginger Molloy and Keith Turner on basically privateer Jap two strokes. Manx Nortons weren't really competitive in the picture in Ago's day at all (though they were around in John Surtees day).

[pete376403]

When Hailwood was on Hondas wasn't it Phil Read on the V4 Yamahas who was the main competition? Ago would have been an upcoming rider, but not at the level of those two.
Also, when Ago went to Yahama, he would have had the factory bikes, who else was on the factory Yam team at that time?
Must be time to go and do some serious research...

[James Deuce]

When Hailwood was on Hondas wasn't it Phil Read on the V4 Yamahas who was the main competition? Ago would have been an upcoming rider, but not at the level of those two.
Also, when Ago went to Yahama, he would have had the factory bikes, who else was on the factory Yam team at that time?
Must be time to go and do some serious research...

They were straight 4s

[merv]

They were straight 4s

You'll need to do research too. They were V4 Yams but Read raced in 125 and 250 class originally on Yam twins then the V4s whereas Ago was on 350 and 500 MVs so they didn't compete in the same classes. The main competition to Ago was Hailwood and Jim Redman on the 350 and later 500 Hondas. The quickest 350 Honda being the 297cc six. The Yams in those days had disc valve engines which wasn't possible with in-line 4s and they didn't do a 500 in the 60s. The reed valve came later and allowed them to build the in-lines if they weren't piston port engines.

The first inline 4 Yams didn't come until the 70's with Jaarno Saarinen who was unfortunately killed soon after the 500 four was built, then Ago switched to Yam mainly because he was pissed off that MV gave Read a ride on the MVs with Read winning the 500 title I think 73 and 74. Ago won the 350 title on the Yam twin in 74 and then the 500 title on the Yam in-line 4 in 75. Who says he couldn't compete on equal machinery? The Daytona win was on the TZ700 when they were quite new. Then Barry Sheene won the title on the square four RG500 76 and 77. Ago went back to using MVs on an almost privateer basis and won the last 4 stroke GP win at Nurburgring on the MV 500 in 76. Remember them of course it was 500 against 500, not a 500 2 stroke against 990 4 stroke. Then we had Kenny Roberts winning in 78, 79 and 80 on the in-line Yam. They went to V4s for 500s in the mid 80s.

Only Honda built a true V4 with single crank, the others were all twin crank with in effect 2 twin cylinder engines coupled together at a V angle. (That applied to the 60s V4s from Yam and Suz too, they were twin crank engines). Honda always claimed that's why their engines were the most powerful with less internal friction though they were slightly wider in build.

Whatever, Rossi is the man and he has got that Yam hummimg. Maybe I gotta support him now I have Yam myself, but I don't see him competing with that engine over race distance compared to the V5 Honda, but hey I could be wrong.

[Deano]

You'll need to do research too. They were V4 Yams but Read raced in 125 and 250 class originally on Yam twins then the V4s whereas Ago was on 350 and 500 MVs so they didn't compete in the same classes. The main competition to Ago was Hailwood and Jim Redman on the 350 and later 500 Hondas. The quickest 350 Honda being the 297cc six. The Yams in those days had disc valve engines which wasn't possible with in-line 4s and they didn't do a 500 in the 60s. The reed valve came later and allowed them to build the in-lines if they weren't piston port engines.

The first inline 4 Yams didn't come until the 70's with Jaarno Saarinen who was unfortunately killed soon after the 500 four was built, then Ago switched to Yam mainly because he was pissed off that MV gave Read a ride on the MVs with Read winning the 500 title I think 73 and 74. Ago won the 350 title on the Yam twin in 74 and then the 500 title on the Yam in-line 4 in 75. Who says he couldn't compete on equal machinery? The Daytona win was on the TZ700 when they were quite new. Then Barry Sheene won the title on the square four RG500 76 and 77. Ago went back to using MVs on an almost privateer basis and won the last 4 stroke GP win at Nurburgring on the MV 500 in 76. Remember them of course it was 500 against 500, not a 500 2 stroke against 990 4 stroke. Then we had Kenny Roberts winning in 78, 79 and 80 on the in-line Yam. They went to V4s for 500s in the mid 80s.

Only Honda built a true V4 with single crank, the others were all twin crank with in effect 2 twin cylinder engines coupled together at a V angle. (That applied to the 60s V4s from Yam and Suz too, they were twin crank engines). Honda always claimed that's why their engines were the most powerful with less internal friction though they were slightly wider in build.

Whatever, Rossi is the man and he has got that Yam hummimg. Maybe I gotta support him now I have Yam myself, but I don't see him competing with that engine over race distance compared to the V5 Honda, but hey I could be wrong.

I hope you are right - as much as I admire Rossi, go Honda.

[James Deuce]

You'll need to do research too. They were V4 Yams but Read raced in 125 and 250 class originally on Yam twins then the V4s whereas Ago was on 350 and 500 MVs so they didn't compete in the same classes. The main competition to Ago was Hailwood and Jim Redman on the 350 and later 500 Hondas. The quickest 350 Honda being the 297cc six. The Yams in those days had disc valve engines which wasn't possible with in-line 4s and they didn't do a 500 in the 60s. The reed valve came later and allowed them to build the in-lines if they weren't piston port engines.

The first inline 4 Yams didn't come until the 70's with Jaarno Saarinen who was unfortunately killed soon after the 500 four was built, then Ago switched to Yam mainly because he was pissed off that MV gave Read a ride on the MVs with Read winning the 500 title I think 73 and 74. Ago won the 350 title on the Yam twin in 74 and then the 500 title on the Yam in-line 4 in 75. Who says he couldn't compete on equal machinery? The Daytona win was on the TZ700 when they were quite new. Then Barry Sheene won the title on the square four RG500 76 and 77. Ago went back to using MVs on an almost privateer basis and won the last 4 stroke GP win at Nurburgring on the MV 500 in 76. Remember them of course it was 500 against 500, not a 500 2 stroke against 990 4 stroke. Then we had Kenny Roberts winning in 78, 79 and 80 on the in-line Yam. They went to V4s for 500s in the mid 80s.

Only Honda built a true V4 with single crank, the others were all twin crank with in effect 2 twin cylinder engines coupled together at a V angle. (That applied to the 60s V4s from Yam and Suz too, they were twin crank engines). Honda always claimed that's why their engines were the most powerful with less internal friction though they were slightly wider in build.

Whatever, Rossi is the man and he has got that Yam hummimg. Maybe I gotta support him now I have Yam myself, but I don't see him competing with that engine over race distance compared to the V5 Honda, but hey I could be wrong.

I was talking about what Ago rode.

[jrandom]

Rossi best of the modern day riders, definitely. Best ever? How can you judge?

You can't. It's like ELO ratings in chess innit. All you can measure is the extent to which a champion dominates his contemporaries.

But my personal suspicion is that Kramnik and Kasparov wouldn't have much trouble spanking most of the early-20th-century GMs due to progressions in strategic theory, computer insight on tactical situations etc. Dunno if the same thing applies to bike GP racing, though... the advances that make the guys go faster around the tracks seem to be in the bikes themselves, not the riders.

Rossi's ability to get on that pudgy ol' Yam and still post the fastest times at Catalunya over all the RCV and Duc riders does indicate quite a dominance though, wouldn't you say?

[White trash]

Check out the latest test times from Jerez! Looks like ol' KR JR is gonna give the Hondas and Yamahahahaha's a bit of a hard time.

'Bout friggin time!

ROBERTS AND HOPKINS STORM JEREZ TESTS!

Team Suzuki riders Kenny Roberts and John Hopkins posted their best results so far in the run up to their MotoGP World Championship campaign at today’s second-round tests in Jerez, Spain.

Roberts claimed second best time of the test, a fraction over 100ths-of-a-second off the benchmark 1'42.656 time posted by reigning World Champion Valentino Rossi, whilst Hopkins, who is still recovering from a pre-season ankle injury, claimed an impressive sixth place overall.

Overnight showers impeded the riders from lapping on a dry track this morning, even though the rain itself had stopped falling. Few chose to brave the in-between conditions, and all were forced to wait until around three in the afternoon before making their first dry laps of the 4.423 kilometre circuit.

Full report follows tomorrow's second day of testing at Jerez.

Photos from today can be downloaded from: MotoGP/ Picture Library/ Jerez Tests.

Lap times (supplied by the Circuito de Jerez):

1.V. Rossi (Yamaha); 1'42.656 - 39 laps. 2. K. Roberts (TEAM SUZUKI); 1'42.761 - 39 laps. 3. C. Edwards (Honda); 1'42.771 - 40 laps. 4. C. Checa (Yamaha); 1'42.927 - 50 laps. 5. A. Barros (Honda); 1'42.974 - 43 laps. 6. J. Hopkins (TEAM SUZUKI); 1'43.314 - 47 laps. 7. S. Nakano (Kawasaki); 1'43.386 - 40 laps. 8. S. Gibernau (Honda); 1'43.408 - 30 laps. 9. N. Hayden (Honda); 1'43.457 - 43 laps. 10. M. Tamada (Honda); 1'43.541 - 40 laps. 11. M. Biaggi (Honda); 1'43.980 - 40 laps. 12. A. Hofmann (Kawasaki); 1'44.009 - 49 laps. 13. N. Hodgson (Ducati); 1'44.140 - 45 laps. 14. M. Melandri (Yamaha); 1'44.470; 55 laps. 15. G. Lavilla (TEAM SUZUKI); 1'44.494 - 48 laps. 16. L. Capirossi (Ducati); 1'44.544 - 27 laps. 17. T. Bayliss (Ducati); 1'44.595 - 45 laps. 18. R. Xaus (Ducati); 1'44.662 - 50 laps. 19. N. Abe (Yamaha); 1'45.564 - 47 laps. 20. V. Guareschi (Ducati); 1'48.730 - 29 laps. 21. N. Aoki (Proton KR); 1'49.414 - 16 laps.

[merv]

Check out the latest test times from Jerez! Looks like ol' KR JR is gonna give the Hondas and Yamahahahaha's a bit of a hard time.

'Bout friggin time!

Yep, agreed. If they can all get competitive bikes under them could be an interesting year.

[SPman]

This years Suzukis are looking more promising than last year.Looks like most bets are off until the flag falls?

[DEATH_INC.]

Rossi's ability to get on that pudgy ol' Yam and still post the fastest times at Catalunya over all the RCV and Duc riders does indicate quite a dominance though, wouldn't you say?

Aren't you forgetting that Biaggi used to be pretty competitive on the yam too?

Gonna be an Interesting season orright......