A baby's society.

[shcabbeh]

Err.. that it shouldn't be, that it's wrong, it's corrupt, it's flawed, it's stupid, it's bad?

[Indiana_Jones]

most western nations are turning into nanny states 'aunty/uncle *insert leader's name here* knows best'

Personal reasponability has gone out the window lol

-Indy

[Lou Girardin]

Skill or experience isn't the issue when you're young. It's the fatal 2nd or 3rd year of driving/riding where confidence exceeds competence with a dash of hormonal excess thrown in for good measure. Another reason why advanced training is important, if only to teach how and when things go wrong.
Which is a good reason to make the driving age 25. Of course it'll never happen.

[Oscar]

Every now and again, I get the feeling our society caters too much for idiots.

-snip the brashness of youth-

I remember having a rave very similar to this about twenty years ago, as justification for borrowing my mates RD350.

It worked.


He lent it to me.



I crashed about five minutes later through a combination of inexperience stupidity and overconfidence.

I still cringe to think of it...

[shcabbeh]

I don't really push the limits though, I just commute at the moment. I don't think over-confidence is a factor for me because I'm pretty scared of other motorists.

I've come close to plowing into the side of a jeep when they failed to give way but that's about as exciting as it gets. I just wish it was judged on more of an individual basis, that's all.

[Oscar]

I agree with Lou.
I wouldn't trust my 17yo son with a pair of scissors, but he wants his licence.
Motorcycle licences in NZ are too easy to get. The problem is not what size or power bike you can ride or how long you get a restricted licence. The problem is lack of rider training.

[Hitcher]

I don't really push the limits though, I just commute at the moment. I don't think over-confidence is a factor for me because I'm pretty scared of other motorists.

So you're saying you're actually pretty happy travelling no faster than 70kmh on a 250?

[Indiana_Jones]

The problem is lack of rider training.

Thus, my signature must be made a reality

-Indy

[shcabbeh]

So you're saying you're actually pretty happy travelling no faster than 70kmh on a 250?

I was talking generally, I don't try to speed for kicks etc. I'm on my restricted and do 100km/h in the 100km/h zones, but that's about it.

I wouldn't trust my 17yo son with a pair of scissors, but he wants his licence.
Motorcycle licences in NZ are too easy to get. The problem is not what size or power bike you can ride or how long you get a restricted licence. The problem is lack of rider training.

Yeah, exactly, they shouldn't substitute proper training for an amount of time after getting your licence.

[Gremlin]

I don't really push the limits though, I just commute at the moment. I don't think over-confidence is a factor for me because I'm pretty scared of other motorists.

Have you ever ridden in the country then?? Just got my restricted, but have been riding in the country and commuting interchangeably for most of the time.

I have found country and city riding to be completely different. For commuting, speeds are slower, roads are well known. For the country, roads are unknown initially (until you are F/F... ), sometimes gravel/mud on the road. I reckon riding in the country adds an extra set of skills to your folder, like racing, dirt etc.

If you haven't, get out into the country before you get a bigger bike, to get used to getting out of sticky situations at higher speeds, coming into corners too hot and so on.

Basically, expose yourself to as many conditions as possible, to gain as much skill/experience as possible.

[Waylander]

Alternatively you could ove to the states for a while. But that would cost you heaps in airfair, place to stay, another motorbike there and gods know how much just dealing with immigration. (is it one M or two?)

Just deal with it mate. Some things you just cant change and can only make worse if you try to do something about it. Buy a cheap bike stay with it through your learners and restricted all the while saving up for the bike you really want then get that once you have your full. Simple.

[Karma]

Person A spends his 18 months between having his Restricted licence and his Full commuting to and from work. Person A is never in a situation where he or she needs to use skills to avoid a crash, never has encounters with bad drivers and goes on his merry way.

Person B crashes within the first three weeks, lives in a bad part of town with bad roads and drivers. Person B has experienced things in 3 weeks that Person A doesn't in his 18 months. Which has more experience?

Person A. You ever tried to commute in Auckland.. easy my arse. Besides, just because you have a crash and ride amongst bad drivers won't make you any better.

That'd save a lot of shit for the rest of us mature, safe and experienced drivers from being kept back by the system.

Bah, society's slowing me and others like me down to cater for stupid people...and I still have 11 months until I can get my full. Dumb.

Those people that complain the most about being mature and skilled are usually the worst ones.

Rules are there for a reason... I'm happy you're being held back if it means that some other newbie dick doesn't get straight onto an R1 and cause an accident making me late for work.

[Korea]

I like the personal trainer idea, but there are too many bikers and not enough Rossi's to go around. Also extra $$$ and the licencing system is already pricey enough as it is for newbies.

Over to Korea: You may drive up to 125cc scooters, ped's, motorcycles on your car licence. Small bikes are popular and many students and delivery guys blast around with no helmet, no gloves, no boots, no brains...

If you want to ride something bigger you have to sit 'The Test'.

The Test is made up of four sections of riding in a carpark. You have to negotiate a 250cc feet-forward, cruiser-style bike (whether you plan to ride them or not) through a 1-metre wide set of right-angle corners, S-curve, slalom, and a straight section. If you touch the edge of the course twice, you fail.

To be honest, it's actually quite difficult. But has very little to do with real-world riding. Each testing day there are over 100 people and only 10 or so pass. But at $5 a pop it's not a big expense - just a hastle coming back another day.

Once you pass, you can go out and crash er... buy yourself an R1, Hayabusa, *insert stupendously quick bike here*.

[shcabbeh]

Have you ever ridden in the country then?? Just got my restricted, but have been riding in the country and commuting interchangeably for most of the time.

I have found country and city riding to be completely different. For commuting, speeds are slower, roads are well known. For the country, roads are unknown initially (until you are F/F... ), sometimes gravel/mud on the road. I reckon riding in the country adds an extra set of skills to your folder, like racing, dirt etc.

If you haven't, get out into the country before you get a bigger bike, to get used to getting out of sticky situations at higher speeds, coming into corners too hot and so on.

Basically, expose yourself to as many conditions as possible, to gain as much skill/experience as possible.

I've had my fair share of country riding and yeah, I try to get out when it's raining/hailing etc for the experience. I'm saying I don't ride stupidly when I don't need to (which is always).

Just deal with it mate. Some things you just cant change and can only make worse if you try to do something about it. Buy a cheap bike stay with it through your learners and restricted all the while saving up for the bike you really want then get that once you have your full. Simple.

Yup, I am. I can't do anything about it anyway, just expressing ideals.

Person A. You ever tried to commute in Auckland.. easy my arse. Besides, just because you have a crash and ride amongst bad drivers won't make you any better.

It was a general example, I mean that it was comparing situations with the intention of making one out to be easier than the other. It wasn't a location specific example.

Also, I don't entirely agree. I think you can learn more if you've been in a crash than someone who hasn't. Just having the crash itself is experience, choosing whether or not to learn from that is another thing, but you can't learn without having experience.

Rules are there for a reason... I'm happy you're being held back if it means that some other newbie dick doesn't get straight onto an R1 and cause an accident making me late for work.

I'm not saying I'd rather have it so anyone can pass...quite the opposite. I'm saying it should be harder and not based on a time frame, but based on the assessed skill you have.

Oh and I never wanted this thread to be focused on me and my skill, more about how time allocated to riding doesn't necessarily mean you can gain more experience and that it's a bad system and should be changed. It's just a rant, don't think I'm gonna parade up and down the street with a banner and a cult saying "enough is enough" :P