A baby's society.

**shcabbeh** · 13th November 2005, 00:24

Every now and again, I get the feeling our society caters too much for idiots.

You know when you read the box of washing powder and it says "this product is not a food" that some guy, somewhere has eaten it or other products close to it.

I feel the same way with the NZ motorcycle licensing system. A system that has been adapted in order to make it ok for idiots to get their licence, as long as everyone does...to promote equality and fairness. Something society needs to wake up to, (in my humble opinion) is that equality is something that's just not a reality in our or any society.

In my utopia, the amount of time it takes for you to get any of the licences would be assessed and decided by a driving "coach". Where there is so much variation in driving techniques, experiences, approaches, it seems mad to me to have a generic system to fit everyone.

Person A spends his 18 months between having his Restricted licence and his Full commuting to and from work. Person A is never in a situation where he or she needs to use skills to avoid a crash, never has encounters with bad drivers and goes on his merry way.

Person B crashes within the first three weeks, lives in a bad part of town with bad roads and drivers. Person B has experienced things in 3 weeks that Person A doesn't in his 18 months. Which has more experience?

After all, the time frame is only about experience on the road really, right? I'll admit, I'm a perfectionist. However, when other peoples' lives are at risk by stupid drivers, people that have formed bad habits and the like, why shouldn't I be?

Simple fact is, time does not equal experience. Experience equals experience, and a personal coach for all would save a lot of shit. You should pass when the coach decides you're ready to pass. That'd save a lot of shit for the rest of us mature, safe and experienced drivers from being kept back by the system.

Bah, society's slowing me and others like me down to cater for stupid people...and I still have 11 months until I can get my full. Dumb.

**SPORK** · 13th November 2005, 01:08

--snip--

"I want my full quicker"

**shcabbeh** · 13th November 2005, 01:30

Yeah, that about sums it up. Damn you, society!

Man, it's so easy to be emo.

**scumdog** · 13th November 2005, 02:56

Listen you dudes, at my age time is fair scraming past so stop wishing it would go faster....

Enjoy your "L" and "R" licences while you can - it may be the only time in your life that you have them... (I suppose I could say the same about pimplest

)

**Badcat** · 13th November 2005, 07:29

cant you do a course to reduce the time?
dude, I see fuckwits on L plates all the time.
i saw one yesterday on the victoria overpass in AK.
he was one some shitter 80s cbr250, tshirt, no gloves trainers.
lanesplitting at around 100ks while the traffic was crawling at like 40ks.
little cock hasn't fallen off yet i'd say.
sorry, but i'm all for slowing them down.
i'm sure, however, that you are the epitome of experience and skill already, and the laws shouldnt apply to you....

**shcabbeh** · 13th November 2005, 07:29

Haha, it's not like I'm gonna look back in 20 years time and say "yep, those were the days...restricted by the license."

At least I hope not.. :/

**shcabbeh** · 13th November 2005, 07:31

Originally Posted by Badcat

cant you do a course to reduce the time?
dude, I see fuckwits on L plates all the time.
i saw one yesterday on the victoria overpass in AK.
he was one some shitter 80s cbr250, tshirt, no gloves trainers.
lanesplitting at around 100ks while the traffic was crawling at like 40ks.
little cock hasn't fallen off yet i'd say.
sorry, but i'm all for slowing them down.
i'm sure, however, that you are the epitome of experience and skill already, and the laws shouldnt apply to you....

See, that's a maturity issue, not a skill issue. As I said, it's not an equal society, people aren't the same, a personal coach would be a better system, I feel.

**Badcat** · 13th November 2005, 07:39

Originally Posted by shcabbeh

See, that's a maturity issue, not a skill issue. As I said, it's not an equal society, people aren't the same, a personal coach would be a better system, I feel.

yeah, i understood your post, but its a "one rule for all" issue isn't it?
i'm sure those of us that have been driving or riding for 20 years and have safe and capable cars would rather have a differentg speed limit etc than little 19year old shawn in his silvia with cut springs and a trumpet BOV.
But, it doesn't happen, because who decides?
the course you can do to reduce your licence time is a form of the "coach" you advocate isn't it? isn't like a defensive drivers course?
sorry - but i'm not sure of the details - i'm a complacent old fuck that's been riding 23 years.

k

**SlashWylde** · 13th November 2005, 07:42

Do the MCBTA course if you want to speed up you licence process and think you have the experience and maturity to gain a pass. Call Pass Rite. They run the course here in Auckland. I think you have to have held a full car licence for 2 years and I'm not sure if you can do it if you are under 25 years old but it is a good course. I did my restricted and full with them on this course and got to full after 9 mths riding. In the past year since riding I've covered 14,000 kms 50/50 open road and suburban and have not had one crash, fall or near miss - fingers crossed for the future. I put it down to good training (MCBTA) and smart defensive riding on my part.

**shcabbeh** · 13th November 2005, 07:48

Originally Posted by Badcat

yeah, i understood your post, but its a "one rule for all" issue isn't it?
i'm sure those of us that have been driving or riding for 20 years and have safe and capable cars would rather have a differentg speed limit etc than little 19year old shawn in his silvia with cut springs and a trumpet BOV.
But, it doesn't happen, because who decides?
the course you can do to reduce your licence time is a form of the "coach" you advocate isn't it? isn't like a defensive drivers course?
sorry - but i'm not sure of the details - i'm a complacent old fuck that's been riding 23 years.

k

Well, I figure that's what the coach would decide. I mean if you're able to get time off for doing a course, that could be mainstream in which it's actually hard to pass, but doesn't take as long. It'd be more developed than the course though, I'm talking something that is actually hard to pass. That to me would have more value than something that's piss easy over a longer period of time.

With regards to that car analogy, the difference is that you're comparing skill with maturity again. Maturity in that situation would be deciding not to go faster than needed in the first place, I think.

Shrug, just venting really.

**parsley** · 13th November 2005, 07:52

Originally Posted by shcabbeh

Haha, it's not like I'm gonna look back in 20 years time and say "yep, those were the days...restricted by the license."

At least I hope not.. :/

Maybe not those exact words, but there's been a thread recently of people reminiscing about their first bike and what they used to get up to on it.

So you're stuck on a 250. Make the most of it! Learn to throw that thing around the road so you can ride with a 600. Find the limits of grip. Learn to ride well in the wet. So when you step up to that first 'big' bike it doesn't scare the crap out of you or get you killed in the first month.

**Swoop** · 13th November 2005, 07:57

Easy. Go to Rarotonga for short holiday. Sit "motorcycle test" (50cc scooters mainly) and get issued an official drivers licence there.
Come back to NZ and have this licence cross-credited to a full NZ licence since our "rules" are the same.

Away you go with your new licence to buy your 1200cc machine!!!

...Then go for a "quick spin around the block" crash due to lack of skill, and create small stain on a road somewhere and die... which gets all bikers a worse rep & society thinking that it's the bikes that are dangerous rather than the nut holding the handlebars.

The probationary period is there for a reason - to get more skills (hopefully) in an environment that will scare you at the most, but not kill you.

Make the very MOST of the time to learn all you can. Time will pass far quicker than you think.

**kro** · 13th November 2005, 09:49

Its a funny old topic really. I have often thought that the restricted license system is based around a very shaky set of criteria, the most obvious being the limiting to 250cc motorcycles. Ever since I bought my RD250LC back in 87, I often thought that 250- 400 was ample power to get into trouble on, and alot of the 250's, even around that era were capable of 170- 190 kmh, which is fair hauling.

Experience is relative as you say Schabbeh, and I do think riding schools are a good idea. I attended Matchless riding school down in the old Turners and Growers carpark, just down the road from the old Forbes and Davies bike/model shop on Symonds st, and it was the best thing I ever did, and taught me more than I thought was possible to know, being the arrogant knob that I was at the time.
I think a riding school should be a compulsory for anyone wanting a bike license.

**shcabbeh** · 13th November 2005, 11:23

Originally Posted by parsley

Maybe not those exact words, but there's been a thread recently of people reminiscing about their first bike and what they used to get up to on it.

So you're stuck on a 250. Make the most of it! Learn to throw that thing around the road so you can ride with a 600. Find the limits of grip. Learn to ride well in the wet. So when you step up to that first 'big' bike it doesn't scare the crap out of you or get you killed in the first month.

I don't mind the capacity, I love my 250, besides needing a lot of maintenance

Just things like pillion rules and the 90km/h one get to me. Not to say I don't look forward to getting a 600, because I do

But yeah, idiots can pass and endanger the rest of us while the rest of us have to be dragged down by those idiots. Wouldn't it be better if idiots couldn't pass? THEN, those idiots can be the pillions

Everybody wins!

Sigh, utopia.