Any TL owners done an airbox mod?

[cowpoos]

I'm lower order....but own the machinery....tractors,wagons,bikes,etc...

and looking at everything and anything...I still believ farm owner ship isn't the far off dream alot of people think it is...and I can sit down with you...with a caulculator and show you some figures...its all relitive...I do have a keen interest in real estate...commercial and industrial...and thats where I'll be looking in the future at this stage....I'm waiting for all the morgagee sales to start happening in the next 2-4yrs after the boom thats been happining

sounds like the owner is more than happy with ya...

[F5 Dave]

...its about un-restricting it....as the main entry to the airbox is a few mm smaller than one of the throttle bodies...

Why I this an indication of restriction?

If you put this airbox on a flow bench then you may erroneously draw that conclusion.

BUT, an internal combustion engine does not have its inlet open the whole time, or anywhere near it. In fact on a 4 stroke, bearing in mind the wasted exhaust stroke this time is no where near constant.

From a flow point of view & ignoring any resonant effects, as long as the airbox is big enough for sustaining a gulp of cylinder then it’s not such a drama as a cursory inspection may ascertain.

[cowpoos]

Why I this an indication of restriction?

If you put this airbox on a flow bench then you may erroneously draw that conclusion.

BUT, an internal combustion engine does not have its inlet open the whole time, or anywhere near it. In fact on a 4 stroke, bearing in mind the wasted exhaust stroke this time is no where near constant.

From a flow point of view & ignoring any resonant effects, as long as the airbox is big enough for sustaining a gulp of cylinder then it’s not such a drama as a cursory inspection may ascertain.

airbox noise is caused by fricton....right....air fricton....a loud airbox will have alot of air friction....right....the fricton is cause by resrictions....right???

also...the larger the airbox volume and less resticted the airbox entry...the less vacumm there will be in the inlet tract at any given time...when vacumm is created the air is less dense....so per cubic centimetre of air there is less oxegen available for the burn....which is the main limiting factor of every engine...all engines are....is a air pump....the more air you can pump through the more power you can make....its a very simple concept thats lost on many people....

[F5 Dave]

airbox noise is caused by fricton....right....air fricton....a loud airbox will have alot of air friction....right....the fricton is cause by resrictions....right???
....

Man I’m glad I don’t have to talk to you in person. What’s with all the . . . & the ‘Right’

Do you want to pat me on the head as well?

PS: Just saying Right doesn’t make it so.

airbox noise is caused by fricton....right....air fricton....a loud airbox will have alot of air friction....right....the fricton is cause by resrictions....right???
....

So what you are saying is that for quieter bikes we should throw away all the restrictions on our airboxes & have dirty big entries? Have you told the Japanese this? Perhaps this will solve all our noise issues.


Hold on. Didn’t you just say that the reason they were airbox restricted was due to noise problems?

Gee I’m confused.

[FzerozeroT]

airbox noise is caused by resonance, and hate to burst your bubble but it's not as easy as bigger inlets = more power.

Valves are getting smaller to aid in fluid dynamics, an inlet valve is only open 1/4 of the time so the air will be starting and stopping all the time, but also air is like a fluid so you can work out that at the outside of your trumpet the air is at constant velocity and at the valve the air is starting and stopping completely, in betwen the air is being compressed by the force (inertia) of the incoming air and so when the valve opens there is a moment where the air pressure is greater than atmospheric, by making the runners to the valves smaller the pressure wave can be made greater. This then adds a 'supercharging' effect to the engine at certain RPM's, giving the bike a 'powerband'.

Don't all threads just end up going round in circles

[F5 Dave]

Oh no no, It’s a very simple concept lost on very simple people like us. I read it on the internet.

Fortunately we have been enlightened. Recant your heresy.

[TLDV8]

http://photos.imageevent.com/tldv8/a...estriction.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/tldv8/a...ls/Filter1.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tldv8/a...ls/Filter2.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tldv8/a...ls/Filter3.jpg

>

http://www.tl1k.com/Mods/Airbox.htm

[cowpoos]

airbox noise is caused by resonance, and hate to burst your bubble but it's not as easy as bigger inlets = more power.

Valves are getting smaller to aid in fluid dynamics, an inlet valve is only open 1/4 of the time so the air will be starting and stopping all the time, but also air is like a fluid so you can work out that at the outside of your trumpet the air is at constant velocity and at the valve the air is starting and stopping completely, in betwen the air is being compressed by the force (inertia) of the incoming air and so when the valve opens there is a moment where the air pressure is greater than atmospheric, by making the runners to the valves smaller the pressure wave can be made greater. This then adds a 'supercharging' effect to the engine at certain RPM's, giving the bike a 'powerband'.

Don't all threads just end up going round in circles

If we look at drag bike/car engines especially ones not limited by capacity...the path they use for large HP in no airbox/largest valves possible NO2 [33% oxegen] and or super/turbo charging....if your talking about limited capacities...Ie: 600cc motorbikes....your having to mutliply torque from huge RPM's to generate good HP figures from that engine size...thats where your talking about working with air velocity...to fill the cylinder in fractions of fractions of a second...and by keeping the airspeed high you can achieve a high flow of air in a given time...and by keeping the airspeed up your right that it can cause a build up of presure at the inlet valve...by having the inlet passage way taper down in size from the tumpet to the back of the valve...
but I woun't imagine you would be able to get a higher than atmoshpere pressure or even close to it [14.7psi or 1bar] with this effect...
The opposite work with exhuast systems...tuners will tune an exhuast using the soncic wave and and exhuast speed to create a moment of vacuum just at the point the next exhuast valve opens...and that add's in scavenging exhuast gases out of the cyclinder alowing incoming fuel air mixture to travel with less restriction into the cylinder...

and yes the noises are caused by resonances....but....the resonances are cause by...air friction...which are caused by restrictions....and movement of air back and forth in the airbox [starting and stoping movement]...which causes low frequency noises from fast moving air waves coliding with each other...and the higher frequency sounds are caused by the air passing through over and along surfaces...take the air box away...and it will lower the intake noises...

in saying what I've said...a engine thats designed in the way I'm suggesting...will never run at low or even mid RPM's

[cowpoos]

Man I’m glad I don’t have to talk to you in person. What’s with all the . . . & the ‘Right’

Do you want to pat me on the head as well?

PS: Just saying Right doesn’t make it so.



So what you are saying is that for quieter bikes we should throw away all the restrictions on our airboxes & have dirty big entries? Have you told the Japanese this? Perhaps this will solve all our noise issues.


Hold on. Didn’t you just say that the reason they were airbox restricted was due to noise problems?

Gee I’m confused.

sorry about the right,right shit....thats how I was thinking so it fell out of my head and on to the keyboard...I hope no offence was takin...

The restrictions put into airboxes are for many different reasons [low rpm running,emissions,etc]...and they also use resonate chambers to quieten them
which is a form of airbox silencing....which causes more restrictions

[FzerozeroT]

sorry, I was meaning 0.1 bar (example) of extra pressure, as the air that is sitting in my hand right now is at 1 bar. or are you talking about the fact that the vacuum is pulling the air in so the pressure in the inlet tube will be a net vaccuum? doesn't really matter because we both know what we mean

I can't agree with you on the friction creates noise issue though, I'm going to stick with the harmonics of the wavelength of sound

[F5 Dave]

re those links:
The magazine guy was concluding that the ‘restriction’ if any was likely downstream of the filter, ie: connecting to the throttle bodies. It could however be that the engine just isn’t keen to flow anymore, as I found with my 750.

The piece I like best is the chap making the airbox mods.

I have yet to ride the bike with this mod in place as I still have some other work to do but its likely I will need to remap the PC II to accomodate the higher air flow. By all accounts though this is a very worthwhile mod.

Sorry? That last sentence is just hilarious! How does he know?

I’ve done something so therefore it is worthwhile. Ipso facto.

[TLDV8]

I'm a bit lost with this thread,who here actually has a TL1000S ?...and is actually familiar with them on a hands on nature?

[F5 Dave]

pass. They pull good wheelies though.

Thinking about it a more valid mod than airbox hole enlargement would be a tank reduction mod so they don't get in the way of your elbows. Maybe a thick towel & a lump hammer. Post the pics.

[cowpoos]

I can't agree with you on the friction creates noise issue though, I'm going to stick with the harmonics of the wavelength of sound

moving air generates sound waves...low sounds are caused by large movments of air slowly...right up to high frequency which is caused by small amounts of air moving incredibly fast...harmonics [correct me if I'm wrong] are caused by vibrations...either fast or slow.....to cause a vibrations you have to have some form of movement...air movement creates sound because of the fricton caused with air particles moving at,with,through,around,etc other air particles...I know what you mean about the wave lenghts of sound but I don't believe thats the cause...thats the explianation of the effect it creates

[cowpoos]

I'm a bit lost with this thread,who here actually has a TL1000S ?...and is actually familiar with them on a hands on nature?

I have one....

and yeah...this is abit of the thread hijack really...

twins like large airbox's....theres a long time lenght between [90 degree v twin 360 degrees] inlet valves opening...and they are genrally unable to develop high air velocity speeds...short,large intake trumpets/throttle bodies + large airbox will make a twin happy...but will also make it not as happy about idling nicely....but who cares about idling...lol