Special treatment for Maori.

[James Deuce]

Actually US Whalers started the first round of Musket wars, and introduced grain spirits and a bunch of viral and bacterial illnesses.

Anybody thought of knocking up the US government for reparations??

[Zed]

This will continue as long as our beloved government continues to pay out! I don't believe that things will improve, but rather they will get worse.

Are you really hoping that our government will suddenly become reasonable and start listening to the nation?

Are you honestly hoping that these groups (Maori protestors & others) will just accept what the government decides & get back to living a normal life giving to society instead of taking?

Hmmm? Are your hopes built on a solid foundation?

You know what I believe- as for me and my house we will serve the Lord until he returns to sort it all out!


Zed

[MikeL]

You know what I believe- as for me and my house we will serve the Lord until he returns to sort it all out!


Zed

And when the earthly paradise is re-established I hope you and the other elect won't die of boredom...

[Zed]

And when the earthly paradise is re-established I hope you and the other elect won't die of boredom...

You have no imagination Mike!

[wkid_one]

A perfect world would suck! Of course - there would be no highsides would there ----hmmmm maybe it isn't all bad

[750Y]

"settle for nothing now, or settle for nothing later"... rage against the Machine
All I know is that at school as a kid i was disliked for being a Maori and now I feel I am being despised for being Maori. Everywhere I turn I have to listen to some more negative stuff in the media. I hear so much crap & BS it makes me laugh. when did you ever hear a positive comment about Maori from the media or middle NZ?. I'm not moaning, i see both sides unlike a large portion of middle NZ. people on both sides continue making my life less pleasant than it should be. I have to explain to a beautiful & smart 4 year old girl who comes home crying why people will treat them differently and how to deal with that, does middle NZ have to do that? ummm no, but they're the first to point finger again, that is stuff middle NZ never even thinks about or contemplates because it doesn't effect them so it doesn't enter into how they form their opinions. There is a whole lot of things that middle NZ doesn't have to deal with so it's actually quite hurtful to hear negative stuff from yet another ignorant person with an axe to grind. all I'm saying is that the issues are far wider than what's flavour of the month in parliament and the media today and far wider than Race. there is no magic bullet so go easy people there is a large part of New Zealand who is hurting over this stuff. Thanks

[Jackrat]

Yep,An thats why I encouaged my dauhter to stay in OZ,over there she can talk about her Maori heritage an nobody turns their nose up.
Growing up as "The step child" I had to listen to some pretty nasty stuff about my real family,all of which was aimed at me.Hell is it any wonder so many of our kids grow up angry now days.Well not mine, but then she don't live here and don't have to hear it.Some people might say my own solution is a bit of a cop out,But my own dauhter has grown up proud of who she is and has missed out on nothing but the bad stuff.I can trace my own lineage though my mother and her family directly back to Mirama Te hau,Dauhter of
Kameria Te hau Wharepapa, and back from there several hundred years,Yet when I look in the mirror all I see is a Kiwi.When I was a kid I had the shit kicked out of me a number of time for telling people that fact.My dauhter hasn't had to put up with that kind of thing and neither will her kids.
My first Irish ancestor to arrive in NZ was William Gough, Aka Tomahawk Gough, Don brash would not like to have run into him,But thats another story.

[Skyryder]

Many of the problems with the country are one of attitude. Everybody regardless of social circumstances wants something for nothing. This was evident in the Winbox affair. Shift the money around and increase the take without having to do a days work. Blame the treaty for all maori social problems, then it lets you off the hook. Hey bro not my fault if I can not get a job, feed the kids, etc. Well I could go on and on with this theme but I'm sure you get the picture.

I am firmly of the opinion that until our politicians recognize the right that they are here for our benifit and not their own personal agenda's, refugees, or even ideoligical theories (Rodgernomics etc) will 'we the people' finaly be given the respect that we deserve reguardless of race, religion or ethinicity. Like sheep we follow the leader and if our leaders give us no respect them we seem unable to give it to ourselves. This to me seems to be the underlying problem of this country. Ultimately we are the masters of our own attitude and with it the future for ourselves.

Skyryder

[Ms Piggy]

"settle for nothing now, or settle for nothing later"... rage against the Machine
All I know is that at school as a kid i was disliked for being a Maori and now I feel I am being despised for being Maori. Everywhere I turn I have to listen to some more negative stuff in the media. I hear so much crap & BS it makes me laugh. when did you ever hear a positive comment about Maori from the media or middle NZ?. I'm not moaning, i see both sides unlike a large portion of middle NZ. people on both sides continue making my life less pleasant than it should be. I have to explain to a beautiful & smart 4 year old girl who comes home crying why people will treat them differently and how to deal with that, does middle NZ have to do that? ummm no, but they're the first to point finger again, that is stuff middle NZ never even thinks about or contemplates because it doesn't effect them so it doesn't enter into how they form their opinions. There is a whole lot of things that middle NZ doesn't have to deal with so it's actually quite hurtful to hear negative stuff from yet another ignorant person with an axe to grind. all I'm saying is that the issues are far wider than what's flavour of the month in parliament and the media today and far wider than Race. there is no magic bullet so go easy people there is a large part of New Zealand who is hurting over this stuff. Thanks

Ok well I'm not Maori but I have to say that I get pretty pissed off with 'middle N.Z' talking like they know wot they're on about!

I'm sorry but I just have to say my bit here b/c I get so sick of red necked idiots who think the Treaty was just about blankets & a little bit of Land!! Read the literature and all about the way the Hobson & his boys deceived Maori into thinking the Treaty was something other than what it was and then not honouring it anyway!

As a white NZer I have never experienced the treatment 750Y and his little girl have experienced. I have Maori friends who have always experienced a certain look when they enter a room.

I know this forum wasn't just about the Treaty and I know it's not going to be an easy thing to fix but, I get fed up with the "White way is the Right way" attitude heaps of middle N.Z seem to have.

Ok let some steam off now.

[dangerous]

As a white NZer I have never experienced the treatment 750Y

I'm white, and I have and on more than one ocasion and who kicked the shit out of me 'the not so white' and it will never happen again.
There are to many 'do gooders in this country'

[duckman]

"Middle NZ" - Excuse my ignorance but.. Who the Fuck is that??

I presume because I'm white and working, I'm lumped into this catergory ?? Or not ??

It's like people think, "us white folk" are getting together every Wednesday night and organising how we can keep the Maori man down!!

I'm just sick and tired of being labelled "well off and privileged" cause I'm white. I got just as many "beats" while I was at school, I came from what would be considered a "broken home", and we didn't always have the money for stuff.... so in what way am I soooooo advantaged ??

Get real

[DEATH_INC.]

I wish everyone would get the f**k over themselves,forget all this treaty crap,and get on with life and stop running this poor little country of ours into the ground!We all f*****g live here,we should just get on with it and stop wasting time and money on this stupid treaty shit!

[franco]

well, this is quite non-biker related isn't it? I keep thinking about Zed's first thread when we partake in conversations like these hahaha! (no offence bro).

I'm half-caste (50/50 Maori/ Pakeha). Grew up with both cultures. I'm always classed as Maori not pakeha, don't ask me why it's just the way NZ culture works, aye? Doesn't matter, I'm proud being a pleasant Maori/Pakeha mix on top of being a Kiwi.

To be honest, on this issue I'm disgusted with both sides. We have Brash pushing a sensitive culture-related issue to unashamedly increase his brownie points with the majority of NZ'ers (non-Maori) for personal and party political gain. Personally I think he would have been better off to wait for the election year, but hey, as a country I don't think we ever have claimed to have the brightest politicians...

And we have a minority of Maori radicals reacting to the issue in their typical radical way, coupled with the previous indescretions of certin Maori political leaders (very much a minority) making it appear all Maori are money hungry, theiving and self serving complainers. And the rest of us fellas get tarred with the same brush so to speak...

Well I'm Maori, and none of my family (extended and immediate) haven't recieved a penny of all the fishing $$ or land or foreshore rights everyone is so concerned about. I have a mortgage like most other land owners. I pay the same council rates, and income taxes like everyone else. So why do we insist with escalating this this into a culture/race war?

People believe too much about they read in newspapers or watch on TV, ignoring that journos and reporters are always trying to make a story out of something. And we suck it in as truth.

I dunno, never cared for politics, don't think I ever will. I'm just glad NZ is not an Iraq or Ireland or some f*cked up republic in Europe or Africa where they have REAL problems, like war, ethnic cleansing, and religion-inspired murders and massacres.

Well, off the ol' soapbox now, weather looks good, might leave work a little early and go for a ride tonite...

cher cher

[Ms Piggy]

I'm white, and I have and on more than one ocasion and who kicked the shit out of me 'the not so white' and it will never happen again.
There are to many 'do gooders in this country'

I have thought about what I "said" last night and I must apologise for being such a hot head I was very blunt & insensitive, I'm sorry. It's what I believe but the way I put it was a bit full on & disrespectful, with a whole lot of generalisations.

I know there are people other than Maori that have experience racism and I know that this whole issue is HUGE and I don't think there will ever be a single solution.

So, sorry if I offended any one/everyone/noone.

p.s I agree Dangerous, there are too many 'do gooders' but there also seem to be a lot of misinformed people when it comes to the Treaty & Maori issues in general. Okay I'll shut up now!

[James Deuce]

Ok well I'm not Maori but I have to say that I get pretty pissed off with 'middle N.Z' talking like they know wot they're on about!

I'm sorry but I just have to say my bit here b/c I get so sick of red necked idiots who think the Treaty was just about blankets & a little bit of Land!! Read the literature and all about the way the Hobson & his boys deceived Maori into thinking the Treaty was something other than what it was and then not honouring it anyway!

As a white NZer I have never experienced the treatment 750Y and his little girl have experienced. I have Maori friends who have always experienced a certain look when they enter a room.

I know this forum wasn't just about the Treaty and I know it's not going to be an easy thing to fix but, I get fed up with the "White way is the Right way" attitude heaps of middle N.Z seem to have.

Ok let some steam off now.

Thought you felt that way.

I come from a persecuted tribe. The Celts of central europe. Walsh is derived from Wolz. My tribe was turfed out of Central Europe and migrated after staying with our cousins in Spain (the Basques) for a while, to Ireland in the 15th Century. My particular branch of the family was then turfed out of Ireland in the 19th century for daring to express the extravagant claim that there was no famin in Ireland and could we please eat something other than potatoes, given that they are all rotting in the ground. The English "transported" them to Australia, and once they had won their freedom my Great-great grandfather started a pub and saved the money to send his family to NZ because there was more money and better living conditions mining coal on the West Coast of the Sth Island.

I don't waste a lot of time expecting redress for past injustices, and as far as I know there has never been any recognition that the Celts were hard done by, except in there own literature, both oral and written. Celtic culture has been all but destroyed except for a couple of enclaves in Ireland, Scotland, and Spain. But that's just history and it's what happens. My cultural heritage isn't available to me, but I am proud of the culture I live in now, and that my children will grow up in.

I'm also one of the hated White middle class New Zealanders who has the guts ripped out of his pay packet every fortnight, is not eligible for any for of government support, and isn't eligible for any grant to further my education, or that of my family. I don't have enough money to set up a trust fund to protect my assets or provide some tax relief, and I have a dependent wife (who will be going back to work as soon as she is well enough to) and 2 children. But I'm still the hated Pakeha who has ripped Maori off and isn't doing enough to redress the issues of the past.

Hobson was an Employee of the British Empire. Busby had his own commercial interests and the gutter morals that any successful capitalist needs. As far as I know New Zealand is the only place where the BE attempted to establish a formal relationship with the "natives". To their enormous credit Maori kicked the crap out of a supposedly more powerful foe many times over the next 60 years whenever they stepped outside this agreement. WWI trench warfure, bunkers, and the concept of strategic forts with no worth other than to spend the enemy's strength were developed by a 70 year old Nga Puhi Chief called Kawiti.

Maori were defeated by the fact that their's was an agrarian society and they couldn't spare the manpower required for a standing army. I have no doubt that if they could have, there would be a Maori nation or confederation of Maori states in New Zealand, and us "evil" white people would all still be in Australia or Europe.

But settlers and later immigrants are not included in the Treaty of Waitangi. These people have become the "Pakeha" (a word of dubious origin and meaning according to my Nga Puhi Primary School Maori culture teacher) of New Zealand and are now responsible for trying to implement redress for the acknowledged wrongdoings of the capitalist enterprises (such as the New Zealand Company - the Enron of the 1860s) that settled "White" New Zealand.

There's no model for this anywhere else in the world. I grew up in a lower socio-economic area and my Dad was a labourer. Race was never an issue for me until Maori sovreignty activists made it one. I think cultural identity and race are two separate and distinctive definitions. I love the idealistic attitude the drives New Zealanders to try to make a viable culture that accommodates and acknowledges everyone who lives here. New Zealand is one of the most tolerant and beautiful country's in the world but "line in the sand" attitudes are in danger of ruining it for ever.

We need people to stop sticking labels on people such as "red neck", or "Maori activist". It achieves nothing and wastes vast amounts of energy arguing points that neither side will ever understand. I believe that Maori should be allowed the freedom and help to develop their own "Nationhood" - but not at any cost or indeed "full and final" payment. It's never full nor final. You may not think this, or believe that there is any evidence of it, but as a white "middle-class" male I feel very discriminated against. I belong, if we are to believe the analysis of statisticians to a group of murdering, wife-beating, thieving, ecology exploiting, rapist , child pornographers. The only way for me to improve my standing in NZ society is to wear women's clothes or go the whole hog and get a sex change. O, and go on a benefit.

I've no guilt left to give and precious little patience for the idea that me and my children must pay,and continue to pay for this process, especially when MPs such as Tariana Turia make fatuous comments like "You white people can go home if you don't like it". But, oops! I've just expressed myself and done so in a way that isn't PC, so I must be a racist. It is difficult to treat this issue with the respect it deserves respect when Maori Intelligensia, Business people, tribal organisations and Government officials (who whether you like it or not claim to represent Maori as a whole) obviously and openly have no respect for, or knowledge of the history and culture, of a large percentage of the population of evil white bastards of New Zealand. And little truck with the idea that you catch more flies with honey. Maori culture is fun, and the language is both grandiose and functional at once. Share it and make it enjoyable and one day you may just end up with culture that expresses the constituent parts of New Zealand. At the moment Maori culture is used as a weapon in a "war" against Pakeha "domination".

750Y would never get treated as sub-human by me. Nor would any person who treats me with a modicum of basic respect. I am more than alittle offended that you have dropped me into the red-neck bucket because of the colour of my skin, and that fact that I have different views than your on the issue - isn't that the definition of unreasoning discrimination. It looks different!! It thinks Different!! Killlssss It!!