Special treatment for Maori.

[Jackrat]

aint going to run anywhere - Born Here so is as much my country as any maori born after the end of the land wars.
My point was the english were leiniant with the maori - in other countries invading forces (yes the brits were) wiped out the natives. THey didnt fuk about signing treaties Mind you that is what the maori did to the native Mori Ori here when they arrived.

Take no prisioners, sign no treaty, slash and burn is the only way to take over a country. anything less will result in trouble in the future.

better still dont invade anyone - stay on your own side of the fence

Short history lesson.The english had no choise but to propose a treaty,They were losing the land wars,and had to find another way of undermining Maori.
Remember this was a time after the musket wars and Maori were starting to join against the english.IE the Kingitai movment ect.The english could see what was coming and they knew they could not prevent it with arms.Hense the treaty.Another small point, it was not the Maori alone who killed off Moriori.Govenor Gray shipped Te kooti and his followers to the Chathams when he became aware of how strong his "Te Kooti's" following was.
Gray gave his permission on behalf of the crown for Te Kooti to take what ever he wanted of the Chathams.Seeing as how Maori of the time still practised MARU and Gray knew it,The Moriori suffered a rather nasty fate.
So you can see the english once again had their fingers in the pie.
Unfortunatly for Gray.Te Kooti returned to the main land and was never captured by the english again,he also went on to help create the Kingitai movement.Once the english Govt' of the day got news of Grays part in the destruction of Moriori and his failure to capture Te Kooti,He was then recalled to Sydney were he could do no more damage.
It is belived by most Kiwis that the English won the land wars But in fact they were losing badly,Maori at the time were starting to recognize the english tactic of useing one tribe against another,so a treaty was the only way out.I agree with your statement that you have every right to be in NZ as anyone else, but I also find your statement that the english should have finished the JOB to be both insulting and uninformed.
Shortly before the treaty was signed the whole of Auckland was under constant kerfew and was awaiting orders to evacuate to NSW,such was the state of the english lack of abilitie to protect the place.So you can see they never had the abilitie to wipe em' out.Prior to the treaty it was in fact the other way round.Had the northern Ariki listened to Heke rather than Hobson
Auckland would of been history.There are a number of very good books available that tell the truth of just how useless the english were.The only thing they were in fact good at was decite.And that is what is being addressed today.

[Lou Girardin]

19th century history shows, that with the exception of Afghanistan, when the Poms wanted something they got it!
Lou

[bondagebunny]

what I was getting at and I think pisses a lot of people off is this

basically the maori want the best of both worlds.
wanting reparations from the past can not be seperated from the present and the future.
what are they going to pay for the improvements in their lives, ie they are no longer running round in grass skirts living in mud huts etc (simplyfied)
They drive white mans cars, watch white mans movies, have better housing,
live longer, altho they still lag behind the white man in health stakes etc but it must be admited a lot of that is choice for instance more maori smoke, and that is there choice. They have peace to do so with out worrying about getting invaded and eaten.
The settlement of NZ was in no way a one way street. Maori did all right out of it especailly those who did the trades for land - altho I expect it much as today the chief who sold the land kept the goodies he got for it. No trickle down then either.

Sure it aint a perfect deal but nothing ever is and tey should take up the complaints with the ancestors of the chief who sold the land not the buyer.

I still say they got a good deal in not being given small pox blankets as the US did to the native americans, they were not hunted for sport as were the Aborogines in OZ, they were not dominated and torture to the same degree of the Brits did to the India peoples.

All around the world shit was done to the natives, but the maoris were treated better than most.

To the maoris who want ot have a maori parliament to run this country so they can have there own justice systems etc OK but you have to pay to use
all the stuff like roads, schools, tv, radio, hospitals etc that are provided by NZers
That is ALL NZers who dont agree with this type of shit.

The maori is nearly extinct - true full bloods are rare if not non existant.
and the question is if less than 50% blood how can the lesser part qualify for benefits etc.

[Yamahamaman]

To the maoris who want ot have a maori parliament to run this country so they can have there own justice systems etc OK

Hmmm. I don't see it as a great idea. Take, for example, Maori TV and the Cellular Telephone concessions. They are years old and there are still no resolutions apart for a holding channel on Sky Digital.

Nepitism takes away democracy as so many countries have found out to their detriment.

As having descended from Maori and Non-Maori, can I be called a racist?

Murray

[Motu]

Shit,I really hate to agree with you bunnykins - but yer right...of all the indingenous races put under the thumb of the all powerful white man,the Maori have come off bloody well,and until a few years ago we all thought they had intergrated quite well.But perhaps this has given them a stronger voice,they are arguing as I hope equals and not lesser beings as in some countries.

Genoside has been committed in this country - by acts of love,not war.

[Jackrat]

White mans cars did not exisist back then nor did a lot of other white mans things.Most of these things have come about regardless of anybody.An what makes anybody think the old Maori was not happy with his lot anyway.
You cannot compear Maori with other natives in other lands because the british took their best shot and failed, so what happened to a bunch of abo's was a totaly different thing.Had the british been able to pull an Oz'y they would have but they were not up to it.Remember it was Maori who taught the british both trench war fare and also Guerilla warfare,What ever the british did to other races they tryed here also and failed.I fail to see how Maori were in any way lucky.Remember also it was a Maori person that formed the basis of the welfair state that is NZ today,not some pom.
And why should Maori pay for the use of roads ect that they have already payed for with their taxes just like any other New Zealander.They didn't just turn up yesterday.And weather you like it or not there is a treaty and that treaty is now having to be honored for the first real time in NZs history.
Any white New Zealander who thinks The poms should not have signed that treaty are missing the fact that Maori would of taken the whole country back other wise.And most of us would be speaking with an Ozy accent today.
Get used to it,The poms needed that treaty,not the other way round.You all should study NZ history, a few of the myths would come crumbling down around your ears.As for asimilation,that has always been a joke,since when was one people always bending to the will of another been asimilation,we were ment to be one people, not one making all the rules with the other blindly following until all their culture and history is lost or rewriten to suit the other.Kiwi efforts would be better spent in stoping the NZ Gov't allowing huge tracts of NZ being sold off to over seas interests rather than worrying about Maori having the treaty they signed honoured for a change.In the future White NZ will have their little 1/4 acre block and nothing else because
they have been stupid enough to listen to the likes of Don Brash while their birth rite is being sold out from under them.Maori are not the real problem in this country but they certainly make a nice smoke screen to be used by the Gov't.Do you really think the future American and Japanese owners of NZ are going to give a damn about the dumb fuck Kiwis that allowed their counrty to be sold off.Give it another 100yrs and white NZ is going to get a taste of it's own.But Maori will still be here and probably rolling in it.

[mangell6]

BondageBunny

Good to see that you are bringing up the illogical argument of the 'natives' are better off because we invaded their country and made them have a better lifestyle. This is based on the assumption that your lifestyle is better than theres.

That is the same logic that is currently being used by America. Some western christian religous groups beleive that their faith is the only faith and that your faith is wrong, so they have to correct you.

Last century the majority if not all of the 'maori land' that was obtained under the public works act was never 'paid for', other land that was in individual ownership was 'paid for' no matter how small the pittance was that the government paid.

[bondagebunny]

it is the 1/8th or 1/64th of the maori blood that rules the other 7/8ths or 63/64ths for some reason other than greed but it is getting harder to see it in the murk.

my lot were irish and german spanish and pom so who do I take all my sad arse grievences up with. No One - I have enuff strength of character to more forward on my own something about the 1/64th of maori that wont allow these non maori to do so with out a hand out from someone.

[Zed]

...Some western christian religous groups beleive that their faith is the only faith and that your faith is wrong, so they have to correct you...

Tell me Mengell6, why do you think these "groups" go about correcting others about their faith?

Declare if you have any understanding on such matters?


Zed

[Jackrat]

it is the 1/8th or 1/64th of the maori blood that rules the other 7/8ths or 63/64ths for some reason other than greed but it is getting harder to see it in the murk.

my lot were irish and german spanish and pom so who do I take all my sad arse grievences up with. No One - I have enuff strength of character to more forward on my own something about the 1/64th of maori that wont allow these non maori to do so with out a hand out from someone.

The big difference between your/my old Irish ancestors and Maori is that our ancestors gave up and ran away,The Maori have never done this.You like myself have no choise but to live with the mistakes of our irish ancestors,it's not a matter of character it's a matter of choise,or the lack of choise.The Maori have a treaty with the NZ Govt' We as NZ citizens are also bound by that treaty.Why should Maori give up anything because your/my ancestors burnt all their bridges,Maori did not,they forced a treaty.Hey I reckon it would be a great idea to return to county Tyrone and reclaim all that was my familys before the english and their lackys stole it all, But I don't have a treaty with the bloody english because we were sold out by our own country men,The struggle goes on today,But do you want to go back there and get involved.Bugger that not me mate.
The small issues we have today in NZ are nothing compeared to the shit going on in IRA land,plus the weather is better here.And nobody wants to kill me for being Catholic.I really don't know whats wrong with giving back to people that were stolen from and that we live in treaty with.After all it will cost me nothing,Even if the whole country was run by a Maori Govt' it would cost me nothing,I don't get any real say it how the country is run now,so what does it matter who I'm being ignored by.Hey a change of political system might be a good thing.Yeah, get rid of all the current bludgers an get us some new ones.We can put Lou in charge of the police force and see what changes,Motu can become minister of transport,Wickid minister of information,you in charge of prisons,KK and CK can look after speed control on public roads,Zed can look after the enlightenment of all them ignorant nonbelivers, and I will solve the gang problem for just thirty cents a round.
We can put Don Brash in charge of Maori affairs but he will have to present all his ideas in public and he won't have the protection of parlimentry privilage.
All murderers,rapists,child molestors,and civil libertarians will be shot the day after conviction.All homos will be sent to live in Sydney where they won't stand out,People keeping dogs that attack kids in the streets will be put down along with their mutts.Drug makers and dealers will also get a .22 behind the ear and non of them will be eligable for legal aid.All overseas investors in NZ land will be put on a boat back to where ever they came from and those not living here will get a polite letter saying "fuck off an die"
A polite letter will be sent to the english royal family saying "up yours and ya' bloody corgis"We will agree to sell Australia to the yanks in return for a few Nuclear war heads an a few weapons of mass destructsion ,After all they have them all now and really should share with their mates.
Oh yeah an we might have to clear it all with local Maori first.
As the head of Ngati whakall I say go for it bro.

[Lou Girardin]

The Maori didn't invent trench or guerilla warfare, both concepts date back centuries before. And, while it maybe unpalatable for some, people of European origin invented every major advance in civilisation. It didn't just happen.
Lou

[Jackrat]

The Maori didn't invent trench or guerilla warfare, both concepts date back centuries before. And, while it maybe unpalatable for some, people of European origin invented every major advance in civilisation. It didn't just happen.
Lou

They may not of invented either but they used and taught both to the poms.
And since when was The invention of moden machines any form an advance on living in harmony with the environment,And since when was spreading out like a plauge on the land scape,any form of advance to the people who had to pay for it.The unpalatable thing is that they all didn't just stay at home an fuck each other rather than speading their so called civilisation around the world.Civilisation from the people that bought you Nuclear weapons,Gas warfair,Gun powder,Racial supremicy,The destruction of your culture,the enslavment of your people,Religous supression,Small pox,influenza,Drift neting,Deforestasion ect,ect.
Funny thing is that this so called civilisation you talk of is slowly killing the world,See the chanoble thread,thats your civilisation at work.
So lets all give em' a pat on the back an say thanks bro' we really needed that.

[bondagebunny]

give thanks to the white german Damlier for inventing the motorcycles as we know it.

[dangerous]

Arrrrr....crap I should realy stay out of this one but.....BB has a point did you know that in 1968 if you found a Aborigeane (big *sp) in your house you could shoot them dead the law allowed it. So did the Maori ever get it that bad in our life time?

Correct me if I'm wrong but werent the Moriori here before the Maori paddeled over from their islands?

[wari]

What we really need is more of this

less

and :eyepoke:

and lets not be scared to

(new smilies ... had to find a way to introduce em)