Special treatment for Maori.

[Jackrat]

Arrrrr....crap I should realy stay out of this one but.....BB has a point did you know that in 1968 if you found a Aborigeane (big *sp) in your house you could shoot them dead the law allowed it. So did the Maori ever get it that bad in our life time?

Correct me if I'm wrong but werent the Morie Horie here before the Maori paddeled over from their islands?

Yeah you are wrong,The Moriori Only lived in the chatthams and never came in contact with Maori until Grays dirty little trick.You may be refering to the Moa hunters and there is also no proof that they came in contact with Maori anyway.And I will say it again just in case you missed it the last half dozen times,Maori have a treaty.And who gives a fuck what happened to a bunch of Abo's.Shit if I find you in my house today I can shoot you dead ,As a few incidents over the last few years proves, The law allows it,Ya only have to get your story right.
And what does compearing Maori with any other group achieve,We have a situation in NZ that has never happend to anybody else,Argueing that one evil is more or less than another is a waste of time at best.
Once again weather you like it or not Maori have a treaty,it's been around for two hundred years,they were eventually going to ask that it be honored,or did you thing the free ride would last forever.

[merv]

I am a little white boy born in Wairoa and all my life never thought of Maoris as being so different. I was used to them and they were used to me. I worked on the railway for 25 years and more than half the staff I worked with were Maori and they were great guys. So what's happening these days is definitely different to when I was growing up.

Now another interesting point - in January I went to Waitangi for the first time in 23 years and my kids hadn't been there because they didn't exist back then. If you believe the blurb at the Treaty House - audio-visual and all that - the Maori of the day actually asked for the Poms that were here to prepare the Treaty through fear of being taken over by some other force (French were mentioned for one) as they wanted protection from the British. I presume Northland Maori had a big input into preparing the stuff they tell you so am I to argue? Point is I guess the problem is what happened after that.

To me though the biggest hit to Maori has been the post 84 Rogernomics and all that stuff - as I say back in my young days all was sweet, but then restructuring started and it decimated the small towns where all my railway mates were - Gisborne, Wairoa and Taumarunui and places like that. Many of those towns had predominantly Maori workforces and all of a sudden they are all on the dole. That has probably been the biggest hit to their economic well-being and is probably why they have been fighting for an existence since. There are so many other restructuring stories that have hit at the heart of Maori employment along with other races.

[Lou Girardin]

Ok. Jackrat, I'll play your game. Penicillin, Sulphur drugs, X Rays, Organ transplants, Basic hygeine, Anaesthetics, DNA research. Terrible things that make life not worth living.
Lou

[Jackrat]

I have never been to Waitangi and don't intend to go there,To many bad vibes.And yes I have heard that one of the many reasons that the treaty came about was the issue of aggression from other world powers.
Also as you point out it has been what happened since that is the issue.
I think the issues of today have come about mainly due to a lack of faith in the current system.I also was raised and went to school during the sixtys,I was not aware of any real difference between the two groups until the 80s when every thing seemed to change over night.
Having both Maori and Pakeha family I don't have any real strong feelings about any of the current issues but I can see both sides and I do hear some pretty silly statements coming from both of them.Take the common beliefs about the Moriori people for instance,I mean who came up with that,some ill informed primary school teacher??.BUT back to the original subject,which was race based privilege
I am still very much against them,but obviously for different reasons than most.Somebody has mentioned that they themselfs are an example of how they are a good thing because he got an education that he did not deserve.He also maintains that it was not because he had brown skin, but rather that he needed a hand up.The fact is he would not of got that hand up if he did not have brown skin.I think a lot of kids from poor back grounds would like a second chance but that second chance is only available to people of one ethnic back ground.And that is wrong.Being Maori is not an excuse to put up a hand an say I am stupid or was lazy at school so how about a privilege that is not available to all.We all have the same chances in this life,being thick,lazy,or Maori should not give us more privilege than anyone else.

[Jackrat]

Ok. Jackrat, I'll play your game. Penicillin, Sulphur drugs, X Rays, Organ transplants, Basic hygeine, Anaesthetics, DNA research. Terrible things that make life not worth living.
Lou

People got on OK for a couple of million years before hand.
And they weren't shitting in their own nests to do it.
You forgot to mention the damage done to the environment to get these wonderfull things,,,In only how long,,,Whats the point in living longer if the world is dieing around you.this European based civilisation has only been around about 150 years,what will the next 150 look like.
And I don't think the destruction of the environment is any type of game.
It's a bloody crime and it can be laid firmly at the feet of this civilisation you talk of.

[Lou Girardin]

Yup, they got on fine. Lived to 30 odd, pregnant at 12-14, often died in childbirth, kids that survived birth often died before they were 5. The poor worked all the hours they were told to or starved. War was a sport for the powerful. And this was only 1 or 2 centuries back.
The good old days alright.
As for conservation, lets not talk about the Moa and Kereru.
Lou

[Motu]

Actualy from some acounts I've read(which could be disputed,as can Jacks references) the Maori weren't doing too good,they were close to starvation,which is why Cook released his own pigs and goats here...they were for his own use,not to give to natives.But being a man clued up in nutrition for his era,he saw the signs of definciencies in their diet,and as far away from home as he could get,released his own breeding animals in the hope they would breed and supply the Maori with food.This land was a hell of a shock after the food rich tropics for the first Maori to land here,none of the food,or very little would grow,just a few small birds and seafood - it was hard yakka to eek a living and after a thousand years were only just hanging on.Flame on!

[Gixxer]

Actualy from some acounts I've read(which could be disputed,as can Jacks references) the Maori weren't doing too good,they were close to starvation,!

Yep, that is correct, the maori would store food for months, and when times got hard alot of the food they ate during the cold seasons would be rotten,

[Jackrat]

Yup, they got on fine. Lived to 30 odd, pregnant at 12-14, often died in childbirth, kids that survived birth often died before they were 5. The poor worked all the hours they were told to or starved. War was a sport for the powerful. And this was only 1 or 2 centuries back.
The good old days alright.
As for conservation, lets not talk about the Moa and Kereru.
Lou

And you still fail to address modern civilisations destruction of the environment.Like where is the beniifit in living longer if the world is slowy dieing because of your efforts.And by the way most of the world still lives under the conditions you mention,they get no benifit from your wonderfull civilisation but have and will continue to pay for it.Have you never read the 7% theory of world balance.Try it but be warned, you might end up with both eyes open.And where the hell do Moa come into it.The Moa died off long before Maori came to NZ,along with the people that killed them off.
Also since Kereru habitat has been destroyed by modern deforestasion I don,t see your point on that at all.
And Motu,this is not a flame or argument,it is a civilised discussion.
And yeah you are right the Maori were in a constant state of intertribal warfare when cook arrived,the food situation was what lead to their practice of cannibalisim.Natural selection would have solved that problem,And it still has nothing to do with what has happened since the treaty was signed and our own history really begins in NZ.Anything that happened before that is pretty irellivent.

[riffer]

I was always told the Maori killed off the Moa.

What really happened?

[Jackrat]

I was always told the Maori killed off the Moa.

What really happened?

Nobody knows for sure but the latest theorey is that the Moa hunters who were a race that lived in NZ before the Maori arrived killed off the moa.
Because the Moa were their primary food source they followed suit shortly after.The Moa hunters lived mainly in the south island.What is not commonly known is that NZ is belived to of been inhabited by other people of Scandinavian desent before and around the time that Maori first arrived in NZ.
In the Waipoa forest in Northland are the remains of a stone village that contained around 250 small stone buildings of Scandinavian type.The old Nga puhi legends contain constant reference to their having lived under the suferage of a blond haired,blue eyed,fair skined race of people when they first arrived in NZ.Auckland Uni' tryed to get in there a few years ago to investigate the area,but were shut out and had their funding pulled by the govt' at the insistance of the local Maori.Access to the area is now totaly banned and that ban is enforced by DOC.
Remember our whole society is based on the premiss that Maori are the original people of the land.Kind'a makes you wonder aye.

[riffer]

Thanks for that Jackrat.

I've done some searching and there's quite a bit of info around (however a lot conflicting) which should make for some interesting down-time surfing.

Prevailing opinion seems to be that a separate polynesian race arrived around 700AD - 850AD and was assimilated into the maori population at the time of the great migration (1200-).

Can't find anything about scandinavian tribes but I have seen a bit of stuff on the telly. Likewise the spanish helmets and things off Banks Peninsula.

Fascinating stuff...

[Gixxer]

my ancestors are the most persecuted here, for I am Irsh, Scottish and maori.
bondagebunny, I drive a jap car and ride a jap bike. and the English never "Wiped out" any race.
I have never seen a hand out in my life, and I will never see one, some of you have mentioned % and and there are no such things as real maori's etc, when I sat my school C and at the bottom of the 1st page of every exam I was asked my nationality and put NZ european I was told I had to put Maori.
does not matter how much of a maori you are.
I think alot of this is shit, and you hear people say things like I was beaten up by a darkie, it goes both ways you know, 4 yrs ago I had 6 dick heads try and smash me and my mate, and the reason? apparently I was a stupid 'nigga', these rednecks apparently had a problem with me kicking back with my pakeha girl friends,and I will say again "try" lost a tooth, did not lose the fight. the shit that gets flung Jackrat, 750Y and my way is crap.
and as for Zed Are you honestly hoping that these groups (Maori protestors & others) will just accept what the government decides & get back to living a normal life giving to society instead of taking?
I have given more to this society then you or your dead god ever will. untill you have put on a uniform and and been ready to fight for country do not preach to me that crap. and if you have been in the forces, stand up and give me you service number, or shut the hell up. the only thing I care about as much as my family is the men and women I served with.
I own land, which I have brought off my own back, and I rent it for a shit load of money, and who is it I rent to? middle NZ pakeha.


[

[Gixxer]

oh yeh and zedm, if u and anyone else don't like I what I say, you can kiss my cheeky darky arse

[Zed]

...and as for Zed Are you honestly hoping that these groups (Maori protestors & others) will just accept what the government decides & get back to living a normal life giving to society instead of taking?
I have given more to this society then you or your dead god ever will. untill you have put on a uniform and and been ready to fight for country do not preach to me that crap. and if you have been in the forces, stand up and give me you service number, or shut the hell up...

It's the activists (Maori protestors) that stir up the people and give the Maoris a bad rep. I am for most of your argument Gixxer, apart from the personal attacks about me & God. I am part Maori myself and grew up with them. My father is very pro Maori and has a Maori partner- what do you know about my life to claim that you have given more to society than I? All spoken in anger I presume.

Take everything personally if you wish, but you will burn out before very long...

And as far as preaching...I havn't started yet mate!


Zed