Shotguns?

**scumdog** · 30th November 2005, 22:07

Originally Posted by T.W.R

.

the faster a projectile is spinning, the more accurate at distance it will be).

Hmm, may be true - but it is also related to bullet weight etc, a faster spin does NOT necessarily equal accuracy every time.

**Stevo** · 30th November 2005, 22:14

Originally Posted by Sniper

Better than anually, but still not enough. But in all honesty, what do the cops think about firearms qualifications on the range. Not enough, too little?

There were up to six police officers shooting in the NRA till a few years ago. All were from Wellington, and as far as I know, I think only one is now shooting on a regaular basis. (Of course, there may be police in some of the other many shooting disciplines in this country, as sport. I suspect the percentage to be very low though)

**scumdog** · 30th November 2005, 22:15

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

Stowers was the guy in Welly holding a chrome bar when the cops broke down his door, the cops thought it was a gun. He's dead.

I thought his name was Paul Chase???? Oh well, maybe I was wrong!!!

Shot with a 357 - only a dick would face off a 357 with a chrome weight lifting bar - especially if he had recently fired a shot into the roof of a pub with a chrome barrelled shotgun which in the darkness inside a house at night could also look like a chrome weight lifting bar..

**scumdog** · 30th November 2005, 22:24

My turn for a rant; some of you expect ALL police to have perfect judgement, to drive like experts, to shoot like marksmen, to fight like gladiators etc etc - we are all just average guys - and you lot pay us accordingly.
We to want to go home to our families, to have day off, to relax and sleep without a worry about what we have done/to do.

We do such a variety of jobs on a daily basis that there is NO way we can do ALL of them to perfection, sorry but that is the way it is.

And so many of you spout so much inaccurate ballistic/firearm info that it worries me how much else is spouted off on this site with the same amount of inaccuracy - and is accepted by the unknowing as fact.

END OF RANT.

**scumdog** · 30th November 2005, 22:31

Originally Posted by thehollowmen

Maybe.
Hindsite is 20 / 20

I can see a big public objection to police carrying both pistols and tasers. And ranged tasers are one shot aren't they? (at least the ones I played with were but that was years back)

Yes - but you can clip on another load pretty quickly, - goes through a leather jacket pretty good too!

The good thing about carrying both tazers AND pistols is that the 'bad guy' is not sure what you're pointing at him - and even if it is a tazer he knows what happens if he get hit by one.

**thehollowmen** · 30th November 2005, 22:34

Originally Posted by scumdog

Hmm, may be true - but it is also related to bullet weight etc, a faster spin does NOT necessarily equal accuracy every time.

Faster spin means the groups will be tighter (especially if nothing else changes eg gun mounted in a vice and fired) ... but that don't mean they'll be placed any better.

**thehollowmen** · 30th November 2005, 22:36

Originally Posted by scumdog

Yes - but you can clip on another load pretty quickly, - goes through a leather jacket pretty good too!

The good thing about carrying both tazers AND pistols is that the 'bad guy' is not sure what you're pointing at him - and even if it is a tazer he knows what happens if he get hit by one.

Would a taser attachment on the trigger guard of the glock make things more fun?
*evil grin*

mounted like those mag light accessories or laser sights?

**scumdog** · 30th November 2005, 22:41

Originally Posted by thehollowmen

Faster spin means the groups will be tighter (especially if nothing else changes eg gun mounted in a vice and fired) ... but that don't mean they'll be placed any better.

Too fast a rate of spin will fling heavy bullets all over the place. (sorry if I have this wrong and it should be 'light bullets' but one rate of spin does not all bullets suit).

**Stevo** · 30th November 2005, 22:53

Originally Posted by thehollowmen

Faster spin means the groups will be tighter (especially if nothing else changes eg gun mounted in a vice and fired) ... but that don't mean they'll be placed any better.

Why do you think a faster spin will group tighter???? I think this is a VERY relative assumption, and quite vague. Like most things it is a matter of finding perfect balance between all factors in an equation. Faster spin does increase the odds of a bullet disintegrating mid flight. Believe me that happens more than you might think.

Originally Posted by scumdog

My turn for a rant; some of you expect ALL police to have perfect judgement, to drive like experts, to shoot like marksmen, to fight like gladiators etc etc - we are all just average guys - and you lot pay us accordingly.
We to want to go home to our families, to have day off, to relax and sleep without a worry about what we have done/to do.

We do such a variety of jobs on a daily basis that there is NO way we can do ALL of them to perfection, sorry but that is the way it is.

I sympathise with you. You have no idea how many Fark ups I make in a day! But I still think I'm good! LOL. But I do set myself high standards.

Originally Posted by scumdog

And so many of you spout so much inaccurate ballistic/firearm info that it worries me how much else is spouted off on this site with the same amount of inaccuracy - and is accepted by the unknowing as fact.

Yup. Cannot believe some of the crap I've read in this thread! I don't know pistols, so don't talk pistols. Had a go with a few, (target 22, revolver think it was a .38, and a very nice semi .45) at a pistol club. Doesn't make me an expert tho.

**spudchucka** · 30th November 2005, 23:11

Originally Posted by Swoop

Correct.
If you would like to go back and re-read all the posts in this thread you might find that we were talking about reliability of .45ACP pistols. Sniper has had problems with reliabilty whereas I have not.
A standard service firearm has to have a heavy trigger for 2 reasons.
#1 US liability laws making it even more necessary for the manufacturers to make it hard to fire a firearm.
#2 To prevent small brained retards from firing a firearm "acidentally" (forget safties and simply keeping finger OFF trigger)

The glock has a standard trigger pull. Get used to it.

Drop the attitude FFS.

You said that the police must use standard issue firearms but only because they have a heavier trigger pull. Heavier than what? A boiled egg? Or were you meaning heavier than a competition target shooting pistol?

The trigger pull on a Glock is not even remotely heavy, if you want to insist that its "standard" then thats fine by me but it aint heavy. And that makes your statement about, police / must use / standard issue / heavy trigger pull, nonsense.

Jesus H Christ there is some fucken bullshit in this thread.

**thehollowmen** · 30th November 2005, 23:15

Originally Posted by Stevo

Why do you think a faster spin will group tighter???? I think this is a VERY relative assumption, and quite vague. Like most things it is a matter of finding perfect balance between all factors in an equation. Faster spin does increase the odds of a bullet disintegrating mid flight. Believe me that happens more than you might think.

I'm basing this on years of archery, and a bit of shooting.

With rotation in relation to bullet to bullet variances I'm thinking the physics behind it must be pretty similar.

Any defect in an arrow will be ballenced out pretty well if rotates nice and fast.. you can watch the arrows do a helix type path that grows wider as it heads down the range. Bullets also can have a slight tumble (is that the right word) where the nose or the rear moves in a slight circle compared with the other end. The faster you can make it rotate (And travel) the finer the flight path helix becomes.

The direction these helixes start in is dependant on variation between arrows (amoung other things) ... make the helixes small and you get a tighter group.
hard to explain without good diagrams.. if someone does get my drift, please tell me if I'm on the right path here

**thehollowmen** · 30th November 2005, 23:23

Originally Posted by scumdog

Too fast a rate of spin will fling heavy bullets all over the place. (sorry if I have this wrong and it should be 'light bullets' but one rate of spin does not all bullets suit).

I can understand that too

We did a lot of 'arrow tuning' to try and get the spin and velocity matched ... we found that as we changed one the other would change as well.

From it was the lighter arrows that could be flung off to a side as they left the bow if they had too much spin

**thehollowmen** · 30th November 2005, 23:24

wee this is a great way to get my post count up
less than three

**scumdog** · 30th November 2005, 23:26

Originally Posted by thehollowmen

I can understand that too

We did a lot of 'arrow tuning' to try and get the spin and velocity matched ... we found that as we changed one the other would change as well.

From it was the lighter arrows that could be flung off to a side as they left the bow if they had too much spin

Worse than that - with arrows you had their 'spine' to worry about, at least I don't have THAT worry!!