Maybe.Originally Posted by RiderInBlack
Hindsite is 20 / 20
I can see a big public objection to police carrying both pistols and tasers. And ranged tasers are one shot aren't they? (at least the ones I played with were but that was years back)
an antithesis
Maybe.
Hindsite is 20 / 20
I can see a big public objection to police carrying both pistols and tasers. And ranged tasers are one shot aren't they? (at least the ones I played with were but that was years back)
Aargh, photos!
Good shooting.
To every man upon this earth
Death cometh sooner or late
And how can a man die better
Than facing fearful odds
For the ashes of his fathers
And the temples of his Gods
Aargh, photos!
Yep I know them well. Thanks.
To every man upon this earth
Death cometh sooner or late
And how can a man die better
Than facing fearful odds
For the ashes of his fathers
And the temples of his Gods
Immature and proud of it.
The same people who might have worn the 2 stray 9mm's?
Speed doesn't kill people.
Stupidity kills people.
Aargh, photos!
I can see where you are coming from RIB, but this is just the attitude that is causing NZ to be such a bloody pacifist country as well as trying to sterilise us to whats really happening.Then maybe a tazer would have been better, cause a psychotic or drug hyped person doesn't slow well with bullets unless you shot to kill. If guns were the answer we would arm Nurses with guns that are dealing with Psychotic patients. If the perp had a gun or bow, then sure, shot the fu*ker. But I don't buy that Police need to use a gun against a knife. They didn't used to. The knife welder has not change much.
Don't turn NZ into the US
The guy just killed someone with a knife and then the cops still had to fuck around trying to get close enough to taser the fucker. Just shoot him before he causes even more harm to others and then slag the cops for not acting quick enough.
Like I said, I see where you are coming from, but in my veiwpoint, a guy high on drugs weilding a knife will just end up more pissed when you taser him than if you shot him.
To every man upon this earth
Death cometh sooner or late
And how can a man die better
Than facing fearful odds
For the ashes of his fathers
And the temples of his Gods
Aargh, photos!
Less chance of 2 stray 9mm hitting someone than 50 pellets. I know what you mean though, there still is that chance
To every man upon this earth
Death cometh sooner or late
And how can a man die better
Than facing fearful odds
For the ashes of his fathers
And the temples of his Gods
Immature and proud of it.
9 in 00 buck?
BTW those advocating .45ACP obviously haven't fired it. You'd be lucky to get 1 round on target with an M1911A1 let alone more. Especially with the amount of training our cops get.
And .223 rounds at the range of this incident would have increased the body count considerably.
Why do US cops and some military forces (Vietnam, Malaya) use shotguns in close quarter work?
Speed doesn't kill people.
Stupidity kills people.
Aargh, photos!
Shows how much I know about shotguns
Exactly, our cops don't get alot of training, but at 40m I could still happily put 10 shots of .45ACP into a box 30cm by 30cm. Big box I know but like you said, .45 is a fucken horrible, unreliable bullet (Well I found it to be) but it would fucken stop a buffalo if you wanted it to. The thing is, if they trained our cops better and stopped fucking around with suspending cops for doing their job, it might actually work and there would be less risk when the cops start carrying Bushmasters.
The reason US cops and Vietnamese use bloody shotguns is cause they couldn't hit the broad side of a fucken barn with a 9mm or .45 or .38. You need to be in the bloody Seals before they teach you how to aim and that you don't need to expend an entire magazine in an attempt to hit your target
To every man upon this earth
Death cometh sooner or late
And how can a man die better
Than facing fearful odds
For the ashes of his fathers
And the temples of his Gods
Salted Pork
Well if that is true then it is obvious why it took three shots and a tackle to drop him. There is a problem in that some cops might be to scared of the consequences to aim for center mass as they should. I mean to say, who wants to put them selves through what Keith Abbott went through. Shooting at legs is bloody irresponsible use of the weapon as it increases risk to bystanders and to the cop. The weapons we have are effective but the cops need to know that they have the backing of their organisation, the public and the courts to use them as required.
The hydra-shock ammunition used is a very effective 9mm round but my preference is to take a long arm and the 223 hollow point round will do the job, no problems.
I think that a pump action shotty adds "Fuck off" value to an incident in that the sound of the pump action is instantly recognisable and grabs the attention of anybody close at hand. I don't know how appropriate the use of solid rounds would be though. Can you imagine the media response to images of an offender with their entire chest cavity having been removed?
Wearing Hi-Viz Black.
Bullshit! Glocks come in .45ACP. Do your homework. (Poxy tupperware guns anyway).
They probably were, but being totally useless with firearms they will have snatched the shots and pulled them downwards.
If ever a street cop points a gun at you DO NOT MOVE. There will be sod all chance of being hit! e.g. the Paul Stowers case in Newmarket some years back...
TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
e mare libertas
Not the model 17, you asinine twat. The 21, and with a 13-round mag only.Bullshit! Glocks come in .45ACP. Do your homework.
Now stop embarrassing yourself.
That's a worry. The real travesty here, which the media will undoubtedly ignore, is that it took a parking warden jumping on the guy and getting cut up to stop him, when there were armed cops present and shooting.
What if the parking warden had taken one in the throat?
Would the popular outcry then have been directed against the officers for not shooting straighter?
kiwibiker is full of love, an disrespect.
- mikey
Salted Pork
Cheers for the finger.Then maybe a tazer would have been better, cause a psychotic or drug hyped person doesn't slow well with bullets unless you shot to kill. If guns were the answer we would arm Nurses with guns that are dealing with Psychotic patients. If the perp had a gun or bow, then sure, shot the fu*ker. But I don't buy that Police need to use a gun against a knife. They didn't used to. The knife welder has not change much.
Don't turn NZ into the US
A tazer would have been a good option but we don't have them here at the moment and no doubt you will be aware of all the hype and controversy regarding that weapon.
Regardless of what you think cops should or shouldn't do, they are not employed to get cut up or killed by nutters armed with a knife. To use any tactical option that brought the cop within five metres of the offender would be foolish.
O/C spray has a maximum range of three metres, which is reduced considerably in windy conditions. There is also the risk of cross contamination to police, which will render them more vulnerable. About 20% of the population is immune to the effects of O/C spray, you never know if the person facing you is one of that group or not. Nutters are notorious for simply ignoring the effects of spray and just carrying on doing what they were doing.
To use a baton means that the cop has to close to well within striking distance of the offender. I have seen highly motivated offenders just smile back at you while you are battoning the shit out of them. Again, nutters are notorious at just ignoring the pain and carrying on. Then they will simply stick their knife in your guts.
I'm sorry if you think NZ is turning into the USA but there is no way I'm going to make my wife a widow and a solo mother because of some nut-bar mudering shit head. The firearm was the only option available to the cop involved in this incident.
Forum whore
We have a problem in this country at the moment and that is - The crime types are getting worse. The scum are getting used to using weapons even for minor crimes. A burgler is more likely to carry a knife now than a burgler of 20 years ago. That goes to more violent and dangerous criminals having more inclination to be prepared to use weapons to achieve their goals. Added to this scenario are drugged up desperados (sorry for that word) who are truly desperate to feed their habit and will do anything to an extreme degree to satify their perceived needs.
We (generalising - the public) do not want our homes and families to be affected by these scumbags so rightfully call on the police to deal with them. If the offender gets hurt in some way during the course if the police doing their job the sympathy from the wider public (not involved) has a tendancy to go to the criminal. ie. "The police are too heavy handed/draconian etc." We do not want our communties to turn into war zones with thugs carrying guns camped at every corner. Neither do we want the police to out number civilians and be camped at every corner. The use of guns for problem resolution is something we fear (as a general populous) due to it's proven history of escalating problems.
Shotguns or sidearms or tasers, there is no easy answer. One solution perhaps is to look at the issues as an overall problem. Target criminals and ensure that those who have a predispositon to commit crime are dealt with to ensure they either will not or cannot continue to commit further crime.
My speach endeth here.
They shall not grow old as we that are left grow old.
Age shall not weary them nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the evening,
we will remember them
Salted Pork
I wouldn't argue against the effectiveness of the shotgun for close quarter action, absolutely a good option. The cops have just introduced the Bushmaster to replace the old bolt action Remmington model 7's. The new weapon is semi auto and the mag holds about five times as many rounds. The model 7's would often get left behind because they weren't as user friendly as a semi auto pistol, (and they aren't as cool). Hopefuly the new rifle will get taken to jobs more often then the model 7's did. I have very little doubt that the Bushmaster or model 7 would have been effective on this offender.
Wearing Hi-Viz Black.
This is the MAIN point!!! Any cop who has access to use a firearm MUST get the training required. None of this 1 day re-qualifying to still be able to use one. A minimum of IPSC shooting every month would be a good start.
What do you think the cop who fired a round while in central's holding cells was doing??? "re-qualifying" handling skills (obviously failed).
.BOLLOX!!! I have fired literally thousands of .45 rounds without ANY problems. The Smith & Wesson .45s are crap and misfeed/fire though. Your firearm needs to see a good gunsmith!
The stopping power of the .45 is unquestionable. This is where the 9mm is letting things down. The old maxim that "it's weight - NOT velocity" still holds true with pistol ammo. A bigger projectile travelling slower will do the business.
This is why you have to use a hollowpoint round to get a 9mm to do anything.
I have witnessed a shooter firing 9mm at a falling steel plate and it not even hinting at falling over. Another shooter steps up with a .45 and bang, down she went!
Exactly!!
TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
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