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Thread: Shotguns?

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.W.R
    mmm do you really think a bullet travels in straight line !!!! HAHA fool you need to learn a bit about ballistics!
    Sigh. Um. I'll restate it some more.

    Projectiles affected by gravity travel in parabolic arcs.

    If a projectile is shot parallel to the ground, the arc will immediately begin to trace downwards.

    Think about it intuitively for a second. Imagine throwing a cricket ball parallel to the ground. It's not going to rise before it falls. There's nothing fundamentally different about a bullet. It has a certain velocity upon exiting the barrel, which gets modified by forces acting on it, namely gravity and air resistance. Neither of those forces are going to push it up, unless there's a particularly strong wind blowing in a very unusual direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Numbnuts
    go sight a rifle in for a 120m zero then fire it at target at 50m, the bullet will hit high possibly upto a minute of angle, then fire the same rifle at a target at say 180m, then the bullet will hit low possibly upto a minute of angle below !
    Listen, you mouth-breathing troglodyte, it hits high at 50m because you had to point the barrel slightly upwards to zero the sights at 120. Gun - Pointing - Fucking - UPWARDS. Think - About - It.

    Maybe this inability to engage brain has something to do with our overly feminist society and the lack of male teachers in primary school, or something. Jeez.

    [Edit: That was kind of a long post. Maybe your short-term memory has already lost my original point. I'll restate it here: bullets do not rise after leaving the barrel unless the gun is pointing up. Mmm kay?]
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  2. #107
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    That box of truth site is great.

    Just wasted more of works time surfing through it all lol.
    .

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fish
    Sigh. Um. I'll restate it some more.

    Projectiles affected by gravity travel in parabolic arcs.

    If a projectile is shot parallel to the ground, the arc will immediately begin to trace downwards.

    Think about it intuitively for a second. Imagine throwing a cricket ball parallel to the ground. It's not going to rise before it falls. There's nothing fundamentally different about a bullet. It has a certain velocity upon exiting the barrel, which gets modified by forces acting on it, namely gravity and air resistance. Neither of those forces are going to push it up, unless there's a particularly strong wind blowing in a very unusual direction.

    Listen, you mouth-breathing troglodyte, it hits high at 50m because you had to point the barrel slightly upwards to zero the sights at 120. Gun - Pointing - Fucking - UPWARDS. Think - About - It.

    Maybe this inability to engage brain has something to do with our overly feminist society and the lack of male teachers in primary school, or something. Jeez.

    [Edit: That was kind of a long post. Maybe your short-term memory has already lost my original point. I'll restate it here: bullets do not rise after leaving the barrel unless the gun is pointing up. Mmm kay?]
    What I said but in deeper detail. Well said.
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  4. #109
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    Why bullets rise or don't

    This is from American Rifleman:
    For a bullet to rise after launch, it must either be launched in a direction above the horizontal (bore tilted upward), or it must be acted upon by some upward force. Two primary forces act on a bullet after it is launched. One is drag and the other is gravity. Drag acts in a direction exactly opposite to the bullet's direction of travel, and slows its progress. Gravity acts downward, producing a curved trajectory. There is no upward force on the bullet, and, unless it is launched in a direction above the horizontal, it does not rise.
    This bit isn't - this is from memories of my AC Instructor and added commentary since.

    However, depending on the weapon used, a bullet will seem to be rising. This is because of recoil.
    Clamp any weapon perfectly horizontally with no chance of recoil = no rise.
    Put the weapon in the hands of a trained marksman = very little chance of rise
    Put a Big Gun in the hands of anyone at all (including our trained marksman) = bullet will rise. This is because in Big Guns, a fair chunk of the recoil is taken up by the shooter and not by all the nicely engineered weapon.

    If you put a rifle to your shoulder, you have the COM of the rifle way way in front of the fulcrum about which it will turn... Your moment is reduced to a minimal amount.
    Put a Desert Eagle in your hands and the COM of the weapon is at and above an initial fulcrum point (your wrist). Recoil in a direct line back from the round is above the fulcrum. Your wrist will jerk back pulling the weapon up. Your elbow unlocks and starts to move your forearm up, exaggerating the motion. Hence the bullet seems to rise.... It hasn't changed trajectory from the point of departure, but it's POD changed before it left the barrel.

    So... if you had been trained to fire a pistol at more than 25 feet up to about 15 years ago, you will be taught to aim lower than your firepoint or establish a serious bracing position. With better recoil management systems, this is no longer the case (hence why you no longer see the HOW or HWK stances (Hand Over Wrist and Hand Wrist Knee)...

    you certainly don't fire your weapon in Hollywood Gangsta style (gun on its side) for a couple of reasons.
    1 - shell casings when ejected are HOT - you don't want one in your face or on your hand
    2 - if it's a big gun you don't want any recoil pulling your arm away from the targe in a horizontal plane - let gravity do the work of re-alignment.
    Yokai - bendamindaday

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yokai
    This is from American Rifleman...
    Hey, that's almost word-for-word what I just wrote!

    Oh dear, maybe I know what I'm talking about. I'll never recover my reputation now...
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  6. #111
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    hey - look - pictures... (maybe they'll help...)

    http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...4137.Ph.r.html
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  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManDownUnder
    hey - look - pictures... (maybe they'll help...)

    http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...4137.Ph.r.html
    Thanks MDU.

    Notice how the barrel points UP
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  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sniper
    Thanks MDU.

    Notice how the barrel points UP
    no no no - the sights point down (or should I reserve semantics for a whole other conversation)
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  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fish
    Check out the penetration tests Spud linked to. 3-inch spread at 12 feet from 00 buck. That's not exactly knocking-down-crowds-in-wide-swathes territory.
    True, but it is the public perception that will argue the point however uneducated it may be. It is the perceived notion that the police will or do use overly too much force that will inhibit their (the police) use of firearms in conflict situations. If even one person is harmed at all it will that then cause a media (and thus public) uproar. The media will have a feild day - "Innocent Bystander Shot in Police Blunder"

    Personally I'm glad they shot him. I'm sorry they didn't kill him. Regardless of whether the weapon used was a pistol, shotgun, taser or whatever.
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  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lou Girardin
    The Police will not/can not use accurized handguns. They use standard issue.
    Yes, agree that they must use standard guns - only because the trigger pull is heavier.
    My point is reliability, and they are allowed to fix that. #2nd rule of gunfighting = gun must go bang every time trigger pulled.
    Rule #1 of gunfighting is "have a gun".
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  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManDownUnder
    no no no - the sights point down (or should I reserve semantics for a whole other conversation)
    I will hurt someone. The sights are adjusted according to bullet drop off, not bullet rise. The barrel has to be elevated in relation to where you want your shots to land.
    To every man upon this earth
    Death cometh sooner or late
    And how can a man die better
    Than facing fearful odds
    For the ashes of his fathers
    And the temples of his Gods

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lou Girardin
    Stowers was the guy in Welly holding a chrome bar when the cops broke down his door, the cops thought it was a gun. He's dead.
    Wellytown? Bugger wrong name - apologies for that.
    Newmarket was the guy pulled over and events panned out to 6 shots being fired at person - only the last 1 hit.

    Edit: Retracting apology: refer Indoo's post confirming statement.
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  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sniper
    I will hurt someone. The sights are adjusted according to bullet drop off, not bullet rise. The barrel has to be elevated in relation to where you want your shots to land.
    Exactly. The projectile comes out of the barrel and goes down - not up!
    (unless the projectile is made of some material not effected by gravity)
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  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoop
    Bullshit! Glocks come in .45ACP. Do your homework.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fish
    Not the model 17, you asinine twat. The 21, and with a 13-round mag only.

    Now stop embarrassing yourself

    Please point out where in my statement I indicate a model number! "Can you get a glock in .45ACP?" YES!


    I refuse to stop embarassing myself, after many years of practice I'm now getting pretty good!
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  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoop
    Please point out where in my statement I indicate a model number! "Can you get a glock in .45ACP?" YES!
    Well, of course!

    I said that the 17 didn't come in .45. Then you went and refuted something I didn't say.

    Um. Are we arguing? I'm not sure what it's about.
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