one last hug

[SixPackBack]

THEY DO SOME SHITTY THINGS TO GET YOU HOOKED , INCLUDING FREE SAMPLES AND THAT INCLUDES FREE TO KIDS , JUST THINK OF IT THIS WAY , WHAT IF THAT GUY GOT THRU AND IT WAS HIS SHIPMENT THAT WAS YOUR DAUGHTERS FREE SAMPLE AND FIRST TASTE THAT GETS HER HOOKED. BET YOUD RATHER SEE THAT GUY SWINGING BY HIS NECK THAN YOUR DAUGHTER STANDING ON HUNTERS CORNER AT 2 AM

Under those circumstances the children dabbling in the start up pack's are as much a victim of their own stupidity as the young man hanged.

[SixPackBack]

gotta disagree there dude. I see how you can say they are under no obligation to take the drug. Try telling that to someone who is physically and pschologicly (sp) addicted to a drug. Particuly opiates and Meth. In there shoes they simply cannot function without it.. not obligated though aye.

Initially they are under no obligation. Drug use is not mandatory.
Once addicted they most certainly will have issues stopping. My brother in law used 'P' for two years [whilst holding down a top management position?], he fought to stop and stop he did, to late however to halt the serious decline in his own health. He died on 1st Dec 2004 aged 35
No one hates drugs more than myself.

[750Y]

I WAS AT MCDONALDS BOURKE ST MELBOURNE WHEN SOMEONE OD,ED

Did they eat a whole McParty pack or something? maybe they upsized their coke? once You start, you can't stop the shake...

[Lias]

Incoming rant.. Ask wolf this is a subject that gets me VERY fired up.

NZ desperately needs a return to capital punishment. How often do we read about a scumbag on parole, or recently released from gaol going on to commit another murder, rape, or act of child abuse? Far too fucking often for my liking. All serious recidivist offenders should be shot.

Lets not forget that prison is a fucking joke in this country. We really need to establish that prisoners have no human rights. We can learn alot from so called "3rd world" prison systems. Bread, water, and hard labour are the way it should be.

As for the "human rights" wankers that think that prisoners deserve the same rights as their victims, I hope to hell that someday they see a family member raped or murdered in front of their eyes, maybe then they will realise that justice isnt about rehabilitation, its about punishment and revenge.

Combat 84 - Rapist

He's a dirty and evil man
And no one wants to know
He could be living in your town
The sign of the Rapist doesn't show
Young girls come to me
Stalking victims in the street
When it happens no-one sees
You're just dragged down off your feet

[Chorus]
Capital Punishment
A stronger Government

Plastic mask and hairy wig
You're too scared to show your face
You're acting like a dirty pig
You're a cancer of the human race
Filth of society should all die
We need a stronger government
All you gotta do is hang 'em high
We want capital punishment

[Chorus]

We need a stronger government
Bring back capital punishment
[x4]

[Chorus]

Hang 'em, hang 'em, hang 'em high
You watch those fucking bastards die
[x4]

[Chorus]

[ManDownUnder]

Incoming rant.. Ask wolf this is a subject that gets me VERY fired up.

NZ desperately needs a return to capital punishment. How often do we read about a scumbag on parole, or recently released from gaol going on to commit another murder, rape, or act of child abuse? Far too fucking often for my liking. All serious recidivist offenders should be shot.

Lets not forget that prison is a fucking joke in this country. We really need to establish that prisoners have no human rights. We can learn alot from so called "3rd world" prison systems. Bread, water, and hard labour are the way it should be.

As for the "human rights" wankers that think that prisoners deserve the same rights as their victims, I hope to hell that someday they see a family member raped or murdered in front of their eyes, maybe then they will realise that justice isnt about rehabilitation, its about punishment and revenge.

Nope - I'm equally equivocal that it's not the way to go. The goal is to get people off the streets for good - that I can agree on, but I don't see that it's anyone's right (man, Crown or State) to take the life of another person.

To start a war is obscene, to defend yourself againt lethal force (with lethal force) is ok, that's about the only time I would condone it. There are some good arguments for overwhelming lethal force where it will likely shorten the combat and result in a lower nett mortality.

Lock 'em up for life - no problem. Take away their life - never.
MDU

- Sesame Street Lyrics



Sunny Day
Sweepin' the clouds away
On my way to where the air is sweet

Can you tell me how to get,
How to get to Sesame Street

Come and play
Everything's A-OK
Friendly neighbors there
That's where we meet

Can you tell me how to get
How to get to Sesame Street

It's a magic carpet ride
Every door will open wide
To Happy people like you--
Happy people like
What a beautiful

Sunny Day
Sweepin' the clouds away
On my way to where the air is sweet

Can you tell me how to get,
How to get to Sesame street...
How to get to Sesame Street
How to get to...

(US Puiblic Broadcasting service)

The point of posting these lyrics is to highlight how pointless quoting the lyrics/thoughts and opinions of others is... I prefer to hear your own...

[Drunken Monkey]

... if only new zealand had a penalty the same....

If only New Zealand had a death penalty as well then...what?

Don't get me wrong, I'm in complete agreement = he knew the penalty, and he got caught, but I have been hearing a lot of people who 'reckon' a death penalty with somehow lessen drug trafficking here and reduce the number of druggies? I'm sorry, but despite the strict penalties for posession/trafficking of _many_ Asian countries, they have much bigger problems than we do. I can assure you it's much easier to 'score' in Singapore, Indonesia, Hong Kong, etc... than it is here. I can be convinced that the death penalty is a useful tool, but the reasoning, in this case, is just plain wrong.

[jrandom]

"You should be hanged for crimes against the English language."

Correctness be damned, you dried-out old pedantrist; Henry Higgins said it with much greater lyricism.

[Lias]

Nope - I'm equally equivocal that it's not the way to go. The goal is to get people off the streets for good - that I can agree on, but I don't see that it's anyone's right (man, Crown or State) to take the life of another person.

To start a war is obscene, to defend yourself againt lethal force (with lethal force) is ok, that's about the only time I would condone it. There are some good arguments for overwhelming lethal force where it will likely shorten the combat and result in a lower nett mortality.

Lock 'em up for life - no problem. Take away their life - never.
MDU

I strongly suspect we're going to have to agree to disagree mate.
Your still seeing these criminals as people, with the inherent right of any civilized member of society to not be killed. I simply believe that by their actions, they have renounced any rights that a civizlied society would have afforded them.

If a dog is rabid, and cant be trusted with the sheep anymore, you dont lock it up in a kennel with 3 square meals a day and a playstation. You shoot the bloody mongrel.

[scumdog]

Nope - I'm equally equivocal that it's not the way to go. The goal is to get people off the streets for good - that I can agree on, but I don't see that it's anyone's right (man, Crown or State) to take the life of another person.

The problem I have with the more severe criminal is an unwillingness to see my taxes being used to keep them alive - let those that DON'T want the death penalty come forwards and pay for the keep of murderers/serial rapists etc and let the money save go to schools, hospitals etc!!

[MikeL]

Correctness be damned, you dried-out old pedantrist; Henry Higgins said it with much greater lyricism.

Lyricism be damned. Surely you can't take seriously anything said by someone who wondered why a woman couldn't be more like a man...

[ManDownUnder]

I strongly suspect we're going to have to agree to disagree mate.

Your still seeing these criminals as people, with the inherent right of any civilized member of society to not be killed. I simply believe that by their actions, they have renounced any rights that a civizlied society would have afforded them.

If a dog is rabid, and cant be trusted with the sheep anymore, you dont lock it up in a kennel with 3 square meals a day and a playstation. You shoot the bloody mongrel.

Yeah I know - and sometimes I see it your way, but then Arthur Allen Thomas comes to mind and I have to wonder how many have been put to death in the past where they did nothing except have a bad lawyer, or faced a good prosecution lawyer.

I would comment that their very life is not a right - it's an absolute. Even in uncivilised society people are alive - it isn't something they have - it's their very being.

The problem I have with the more severe criminal is an unwillingness to see my taxes being used to keep them alive - let those that DON'T want the death penalty come forwards and pay for the keep of murderers/serial rapists etc and let the money save go to schools, hospitals etc!!

Yes - pisses me off too. Don't get me wrong - I just think the expenditure of a lifetime's care and support for them is the lesser of two evils. I'd like to see them with fewer priviledges though. TV's, Computers, Ham dinners for Christmas etc when there are good hard working families out there being screwed over by the tax dept and others.

If I could "tweak" society - I'd come down hard on the young offenders - the "broken windows policy" NYC implemented, and I'd come down harder on repeat offenders. Crime is simply too attractive and the whole PC thing is WAAYYYY over the top (says he arguing for avoidance of capital punishment).

Lock 'em up, put them through hell, make prison an unattractive place to be and make society the attractive place to be.

[jrandom]

someone who wondered why a woman couldn't be more like a man...

Now there's an admirable sentiment.

If I ever meet the Creator, I'll be sure to bring that question up. To date, women's clothing stores are the most persuasive argument I've found against the 'intelligent design' theory.

[SPman]

I am vehemently against capital punishment! It is ritualised state sacrifice to the gods of death! Time after time, it is used against the powerless people in society, some of whom are even guilty, whilst truly apalling crimes commited by the powerful go unpunished!!
BUT.
What I am in favour of, is the victim, or the victims immediate relatives, Being given a pistol with 4 rounds and let loose with the perpetrator (immobilised) for 30 minutes! Within that 30 mins, the victim can maim, kill or even just accept an apology from the perpetrator. After that 30mins, all bets are off! If the victim pardons the perp, the perp is under a bond, length of time decreed by the victim - any reoffending results in IMMEDIATE death!
Its a personal victim/perpetrator confrontation, with the victim having the opportunity for personal revenge, or, whatever, - just shoot their balls off, or torture them a bit, with no legal recriminations - NO STATE INVOLVEMENT at all! 1 on 1!
Keep the fucking state power machine out of this - it is only another way to control and intimidate us ALL!

[Phurrball]

(snip)
NZ desperately needs a return to capital punishment. How often do we read about a scumbag on parole, or recently released from gaol going on to commit another murder, rape, or act of child abuse? Far too fucking often for my liking. All serious recidivist offenders should be shot.

Lets not forget that prison is a fucking joke in this country. We really need to establish that prisoners have no human rights. We can learn alot from so called "3rd world" prison systems. Bread, water, and hard labour are the way it should be.

As for the "human rights" wankers that think that prisoners deserve the same rights as their victims, I hope to hell that someday they see a family member raped or murdered in front of their eyes, maybe then they will realise that justice isnt about rehabilitation, its about punishment and revenge.

Your latter position is one view of justice - punishment and revenge. Prevention would surely be better than cure, would it not? What would an actual occurrence of what you suggest achieve? Greater nett suffering methinks.

I don't believe that statistical evidence suggests that capital crimes are lower in states/countries that have capital punishment. It doesn't work.

As for prison: Have you been there to know it's so cushy? (Anyone who has feel free to offer an opinion) 'Tis easy to judge from the afar. I've an inkling that prison is no bed of roses. NZ is party to a number of international treaties re human rights, we have a human rights act, and the NZ bill of rights act. These apply to all people - even those in prison. Society should be juged by how it treats its lowliest and most depraved individuals - if we treat them in an inhumane manner, what does that make us?

DNA evidence has come to light in the US to suggest that some people executed in pre-DNA evidence days were innocent. Are these people merely to be written off as collateral damage? The judicial system does make mistakes on occasion - that is why there is an appellate jurisdiction - but sometimes even this does not prevent the odd innocent bod' being put in prison. Do we really want the possibility - even if remote - of an innocent being put to death. What value do we place on an innocent life wrongly taken? Should revenge be taken on the family of the executioner? [pt]

I hear and appreciate the arguments re taxes being used to support some people that are genuine pond scum - but I agree with MDU that life in prison is the lesser of the evils. Let's also not forget that some proper badasses have had 'de facto' capital punishment - David Gray et al.

Since we're into song lyrics, here are some more to ponder (Courtesy of David Slack's Island Life blog at www.publicaddress.net)

...that great old song by Steve Earle, Billy Austin, which runs like this:

My name is Billy Austin
I'm Twenty-Nine years old
I was born in Oklahoma
Quarter Cherokee I'm told
Don't remember Oklahoma
Been so long since I left home
Seems like I've always been in prison
Like I've always been alone
Didn't mean to hurt nobody
Never thought I'd cross that line
I held up a filling station
Like I'd done a hundred times
The kid done like I told him
He lay face down on the floor
guess I'll never know what made me
Turn and walk back through that door
The shot rang out like thunder
My ears rang like a bell
No one came runnin'
So I called the cops myself
Took their time to get there
And I guess I could'a run
I knew I should be feeling something
But I never shed tear one
I didn't even make the papers
'Cause I only killed one man
but my trial was over quickly
And then the long hard wait began
Court appointed lawyer
Couldn't look me in the eye
He just stood up and closed his briefcase
When they sentenced me to die
Now my waitin's over
As the final hour drags by
I ain't about to tell you
That I don't deserve to die
But there's twenty-seven men here
Mostly black, brown and poor
Most of em are guilty
Who are you to say for sure?
So when the preacher comes to get me
And they shave off all my hair
Could you take that long walk with me
Knowing hell is waitin' there
Could you pull that switch yourself sir
With a sure and steady hand
Could you still tell yourself sir
That you're better than I am
My name is Billy Austin
I'm twenty-nine years old
I was born in Oklahoma
Quarter Cherokee I'm told

For what it's worth, the song ends with almost the same sound effect as the jail tour in KL.

[Skyryder]

Incoming rant.. Ask wolf this is a subject that gets me VERY fired up.

NZ desperately needs a return to capital punishment. How often do we read about a scumbag on parole, or recently released from gaol going on to commit another murder, rape, or act of child abuse? Far too fucking often for my liking. All serious recidivist offenders should be shot.

Lets not forget that prison is a fucking joke in this country. We really need to establish that prisoners have no human rights. We can learn alot from so called "3rd world" prison systems. Bread, water, and hard labour are the way it should be.

As for the "human rights" wankers that think that prisoners deserve the same rights as their victims, I hope to hell that someday they see a family member raped or murdered in front of their eyes, maybe then they will realise that justice isnt about rehabilitation, its about punishment and revenge.

I think the problem in this country is that many sentances are far too light and the first reaction is to bring in the death penalty. Unfortunately the death penaly is not a deterent. There has been a number of studies where the death penalty has been in force and the murder rate has gone up.

I do not believe that prisoners deserve the same rights as victims but the reality is that they do have rights just not as many as you and I. Justice is not about rehabilitation nor is it about punishment and it certainly is not about revenge. Justice is about our rights that 's yours and mine. The system is not perfect and is more suited for the wealthy than the poor. It's designed to protect the innocent more than convict the guilty. As for learning from the third world I can't help but think of Idi Aman, Robert Mugabe, etc.

I once knew a guy who thought much like yourself, seems after his marrage broke up his ex got knocked about by her new boyfriend. She was so terrified of him that she said she was beaten up by her ex husband. Fact was no one believed him. It wasn't untill the day of his trial that the boyfriend had another go at the 'wife' and the 'truth came out. Those that preach what you preach soon change their mind about rights once theirr own rights have been violated. Oh it seems that some copper had a thing about wife beaters and bruised his balls. Claimed my friend was resistiang arrest. Consequently my friend does not think in the same manner.

Skyryder