This could've been anyone one here...

**judgeshock** · 2nd December 2005, 16:01

He should'nt have been trying to help someone with a drug habit, as we all know the only person that can help a druggie is themself.
If the brother was going to get killed for his choices, tough shit. Two wrongs don't make a right.
No sympathy here.

**scumdog** · 2nd December 2005, 17:16

Originally Posted by badlieutenant

can anyone here actually say for sure that the various illegal drugs cost, in terms of damage to society (Im not thinking just economically either), more than alcohol and tobacco. Or even just alcohol on its own.

I have a short answer to those that think alcohol is worse than drugs, some drug dealers are o.k.etc etc ad nauseum...

We already have a shark in the effin' swimming pool - so now you want to add a crocodile/replace the shark with one????

Both are bad (even though I have the odd tiple) but the gummint has decided that alcohol is legal but drugs are not.

Get over it and get use to it.

**SPman** · 2nd December 2005, 19:43

There can often be a point in a persons life, where, being faced with seemingly insurmountable problems, choice - any choice - to remedy the situation in any way possible, is not a rational process. A lot of people are talking as though this is a rational, reasoned thought - I'll go smuggle some drugs to pay this off - no sweat!
My betting is the triads were putting heavy pressure on the brothers - if not the whole family, over the debt - and they are not known for there niceties and offered the guy a courier run, to redeem his brothers debts and save nasty consequences being meted out to him and or his family. People do seemingly totally irrational things when faced with extreme stress - when the situation is abnormal, the abnormal becomes normal - Why do people put a gun to their heads and kill themselves - because their thought processes are not normal (trust me - I've been there).Taking a giant gamble, like this guy did, would probably have seemed like a godsend and, of course he wouldnt get caught. Downstream affects as to the moral ethics of smuggling drugs would probably not have been a consideration.The focus would have been on paying off the debt - in all likelyhood, the whole run would have been set up for him and he would not have even seen any proceeds of the drug money, other than a wiped slate and more pressure to do it again....
He would probably know at a deep level it was wrong, but self justification for wrong doing is very commonplace and a powerful driver - take the US government cabal as an example........
I know, that in a similar situation, I couldnt be relied upon not to do something equally stupid! I would like to think I wouldnt, but, when push comes to shove, I dont think any of us could say for certain, in our rational mindstates, exactly how we would react!

**badlieutenant** · 2nd December 2005, 20:16

Originally Posted by scumdog

I have a short answer to those that think alcohol is worse than drugs, some drug dealers are o.k.etc etc ad nauseum...

We already have a shark in the effin' swimming pool - so now you want to add a crocodile/replace the shark with one????

Both are bad (even though I have the odd tiple) but the gummint has decided that alcohol is legal but drugs are not.

Get over it and get use to it.

eeer nothing to get over ? :/ (you had one or two already ?)
So in short you cant say if either is more expensive to our society or not ??
And as for your shark croc analogy I think you missed the point there SD.
I didn't approve of the drug dealers (in regards to pot growers) actions, I was trying to point out that not everyone who does a bad thing is a bad person.
Shall I say context again ?
SPman gave a good example.
just because a government says something is wrong or right isnt going to make me just accept it
I might even question it

**manuboy** · 2nd December 2005, 20:42

Originally Posted by 2much

As for those he left behind, well if his mother's got one druggie son and the other's smuggling drugs then she's obviously a fucken useless mother and has noone else to blame but herself.... perhaps it'll serve as a wake up call for her.

Ordinarily i'd agree with you, but once people reach a certain age they're autonomous - they make their own choices and play by their own rules. You're jumping the gun to think you can draw a line between her parenting skills and her sons actions. Maybe she's not the best, maybe she is. At best its a guess.

Like you've never seen a parent heart broken (and a little confused) at the choices their children made.

Regardless - she deserves more than she's getting in this thread.

**scumdog** · 3rd December 2005, 03:09

Originally Posted by badlieutenant

I was trying to point out that not everyone who does a bad thing is a bad person.
Shall I say context again ?.
just because a government says something is wrong or right isnt going to make me just accept it
I might even question it

Eh?? If someone does a 'bad' thing then that makes them 'bad' don't you think?? otherwise why say their actions are bad???
"Oh yes, he does lots of bad things but is actually a good person".

And sure, question the government, don't accept what they say but also be prepared for the consequences if you act on it.

**Dafe** · 3rd December 2005, 06:24

I totally feel for the guy and his family & friends!
The Singapore Govt say he wasn't a pawn, I believe he was!
He is not a mastermind behind drug operations, he was shifting the drugs for an incredibly generous cause, his brothers problems!
How many people do you know that would risk life and limb for somebody elses sake? Obviously a most generous and caring young man.
I'm disgusted at the Singaporean Govt for seeing the young mans death penalty through.
I think he should have been imprisoned for perhaps 10 years at the most and then handed over to the Australian Govt.
What a waste of a life!
Using a wonderful persons life as an example to deter the real criminals!

I say hang the Masterminds of drug operations!
Hang Child Molesters!
Hang Rapists!
Hang Murderers!

Lockup or castrate sex offenders (that are not child molestors or rapists!)
Lockup Drug Trafficers.

Firing squad for all other crime! e.g. petty theft, careless driving and swearing in public!

**Dafe** · 3rd December 2005, 06:28

Originally Posted by scumdog

Eh?? If someone does a 'bad' thing then that makes them 'bad' don't you think?? otherwise why say their actions are bad???
"Oh yes, he does lots of bad things but is actually a good person".

And sure, question the government, don't accept what they say but also be prepared for the consequences if you act on it.

I say he is a good person who did a bad thing! Not a bad person at all!
He did what you and I wouldn't. We would not risk our lives for a beloved one as he did, we are not as compassionate as he was.
It would take somebody with a most immensely generous heart to carry out what he did.

**scumdog** · 3rd December 2005, 10:35

Originally Posted by Dafe

I say he is a good person who did a bad thing! Not a bad person at all!
He did what you and I wouldn't. We would not risk our lives for a beloved one as he did, we are not as compassionate as he was.
It would take somebody with a most immensely generous heart to carry out what he did.

Pardon me being so cynical (got a black belt in Cynicism) but I bet the "doing it for my brother" was only PART of the story - the part that cause the media frenzy. Frikkin' loser is in a better place and MAYBE sent a message to others... (I doubt it though)

If he had got away with it I bet the parents/loved ones etc of junkies using the crap he couriered would have thought he was sooo noble for doing what he did. (Yeah right!)

It would take a junky with a drug-addled mind to do what he did - and probably a bit of greed.

I noticed his brother for whom he died was overcome by gratitude and grief (chuck in another Tuis moment here) The brothers biggest concern would have been how he was going to get HIS sorry arse out of the pickle he got it into.

If he had got away with it I bet the parents/loved ones etc of junkies using the crap he couriered would have thought he was sooo noble for doing what he did. (Yeah right!)

**Sniper** · 3rd December 2005, 10:37

Originally Posted by Dafe

The Singapore Govt say he wasn't a porn, I say he was!

Its Pawn, as in a chess game. Hehe, we know what you like to do in your spare time.

**Lou Girardin** · 3rd December 2005, 10:51

He was the eldest son. In Vietnamese culture he takes the place of his Father and he was responsible for his brother.
Good to see that Singapore is still investing heavily in Myanmar, a country well known for it's corruption and use of drug profits to prop up it's economy.

**TLDV8** · 3rd December 2005, 13:16

I havn't read the whole thread but have been in Australia for the last week,its been on all the channels news and has been milked for all it is worth...the verdict,the majority of Australians don't care going by the polls...No one flies all the way to Singapore on a whim,you would have plenty of time to think about what you are about to do and what the consequences would be if caught,this guy elected to wager with the grim reaper giving no thought it seems to what was going to happen to this shit when he bought it back...that being it is going to add to the misery of others caught in a addiction,something he was familiar with already but was prepared to still do... Where is the accountibility that is so lacking these days ?......... The rules were plain,get caught and you may hang... not rocket science is it,not to mention the moral stand points.

I feel sorry for the family... no doubt the true reality of his actions were more than real when he started to drop...my own opinion,harsh or not,i feel no pity for this person,but hope his punishment will deter the next parasite from trying to capitalise on others.

Remembering this is about 396.2 grams of Heroin.

**Deano** · 3rd December 2005, 14:06

Originally Posted by Eman

The State of Singapore, however, has a long way to go; stupidly high fines for spitting? fines for dropping a wrapper?

Originally Posted by scumdog

The State of New Zealand in 2083????????
The way this present Nanny gummint is going it's goodbye personal freedom so's we can all 'live' in a 'safe' environment!!!

You should check out your local council's bylaws - you'd be surprised at what you can be fined for. "Annoying Acts or Games" for example. "Inducing Loitering".

I agree fully with 'appropriate' fines for things such as littering - you only need to see the waterways and beaches to realise what pigs people are.

The bigger the population, the greater the potential problem. Isn't Singapore very clean and pristine for a small area with a large population ? (That's what I've heard, never been there)

**Dafe** · 3rd December 2005, 14:18

Originally Posted by Deano

Isn't Singapore very clean and pristine for a small area with a large population ? (That's what I've heard, never been there)

I worked there for a while. I couldn't believe it when I walked down Orchard Road and came across an elderly couple mopping the gutters & pavement with their buckets & mops!! WTF?
Also, Public toilets in buildings have attendants who clean the toilets after every use! Usage costs about 1 NZ dollar, but very clean obviously!
Just check they have the toilet bowls first and not the gutters with a hose!