Lane splitting/filtering: the legal and commonsense answers

[Madness]

I'm sure your needlework will convert them all eventually.

Not trying to convert anyone, I leave that to Ed. Simply discussing lane-splitting and giving a perspective that doesn't blend in with the "she'll be right, no damage done" mentality that will no doubt contribute to someone getting killed eventually.

Now back to lane splitting, since we all just cannot get enough!

Nobody's forcing you to read this thread, let alone post in it. You could always polish your stones again if you're bored.

I do it when I feel it's safe, but my idea of safe might be different from other peoples, who would of thought!

I'm so pleased for you. I do the same, funnily enough. I've been known to do some silly things whilst riding my bike too but this has yet to include me colliding with the vehicles of other road users. That is the general gist of this thread, in case you haven't figured that out.

[swbarnett]

Anywhere else that takes your fancy. The way I see it the skills required involve accurate bike control at low speeds and good spatial judgement. You don't need 5:30 North-Western conditions to create an environment to learn such skills IMO, what's wrong with using trolleys in a supermarket carpark after-hours or do what I and many others did by riding off road amongst trees, etc.

This will go a long way towards developing the necessary skills. It is not a panacea, however. Even with all the idalised practice in the world there is no substitute for real world experience. The controlled conditions can be quite different from the real world. All I'm really saying is that, like all road users, we're human and as such are fallible.

From the viewpoint of a driver of a 4-wheeled vehicle regularly stuck in Aucklands daily moving carpark, a splitting bike is a splitting bike. Displaying an L-plate doesn't make me think I should cut them more slack if I see them splitting badly, it tells me they are probably less skilled and experienced, therefore they should be even more careful and conservative in their splitting decisions.

This is a bit of a catch 22. If you don't have the skills and experience you don't know how far to push it until you come close to the edge. Unfortunately, being human, sometimes that edge is stepped over ever so slightly no matter how careful you think you're being; especially for a novice.

Should a noob collide with my vehicle whilst splitting I'll probably be even more pissed off than if they were a Ulysses member. Hope that helps.

What does it matter who does it? The affect is still the same and it's the experienced ones that should know better.

[swbarnett]

Point is that using the motor vehicles of others as a training tool to get the basic skills required just doesn't stack up,

Show me someone on a learner's license that doesn't do this. In any type of vehicle. They don't exist.

[swbarnett]

If you clipping mirrors then there isn't enough room to pass .... simple.

Agreed. Never said otherwise.

what about someone keying the paint on the side of your bike ? ..... No damage eh.

This is not the same. Mirror touching mirror at low speed can leave no physical evidence. You're need a CSI team to even prove it happened.

[sugilite:Me]

Not trying to convert anyone,

Hilarious.

Nobody's forcing you to read this thread, let alone post in it. You could always polish your stones again if you're bored.

I prefer natural, not polished. You tripped yourself up the last time you presumed to know my business too. I even forgot to mention I had 3 employees on that last post too)

I'm so pleased for you. I do the same, funnily enough. I've been known to do some silly things whilst riding my bike too but this has yet to include me colliding with the vehicles of other road users. That is the general gist of this thread, in case you haven't figured that out.

Note to self: "I must resist patronizing needlework and succumbing to mind numbing tenacity of Madnesses posting prowess, like the others that dared to have an alternate idea on his reality and fell away gasping for cyber breath"

[Maha]

Inconsiderate cager fucks, how DEAR they own the bit of road they are on....thats a bikers right only..............innit?

[Madness]

This will go a long way towards developing the necessary skills. It is not a panacea, however. Even with all the idalised practice in the world there is no substitute for real world experience. The controlled conditions can be quite different from the real world. All I'm really saying is that, like all road users, we're human and as such are fallible.

I agree that we are human and we do make mistakes. That said, if you're riding a bike and you're squeezing between traffic when you collide with another vehicle I think you should take a really good look at yourself and ask the question "should I have been there?" I'd suggest that the answer in a lot of cases would be (if you're being honest with yourself) no.

This is a bit of a catch 22. If you don't have the skills and experience you don't know how far to push it until you come close to the edge. Unfortunately, being human, sometimes that edge is stepped over ever so slightly no matter how careful you think you're being; especially for a novice.

Again, riding in a narrow gap between rows of motor vehicles is not the place to learn where the limits are or to be riding anywhere near the edge of ones ability. To do so is disrespectful of others and their property.

What does it matter who does it? The affect is still the same and it's the experienced ones that should know better.

Yay! You're getting it. My comment was in light of the apperarance of you suggesting that motorists should cut learners some slack when it comes to them having their mirrors clipped. It does not matter how experienced the rider is in my opinion, see post #23.

[Madness]

Hilarious.

I prefer natural, not polished. You tripped yourself up the last time you presumed to know my business too. I even forgot to mention I had 3 employees on that last post too)


Note to self: "I must resist patronizing needlework and succumbing to mind numbing tenacity of Madnesses posting prowess, like the others that dared to have an alternate idea on his reality and fell away gasping for cyber breath"

I'm forming the opinion that you are a cock and as such I will ignore your posts. Feel free to do the same.

[swbarnett]

I still don't agree on your stance that riding between two occupied lanes is safer than sitting in a lane proper.

There's been a study done in the US comparing California (where lane splitting is legal) to all other states (where it's not). The accident rate in heavy traffic is significantly lower in California.

I've had vehicles roll back towards me at traffic lights too whilst I've been in all manner of vehicles, it happens. Are you suggesting that I should run up on a road island beside a queue of traffic in my ute to avoid this happening in future?

If the vehicle backing into you was a tank I would certainly say that would be the correct course of action. Change ute for bike and tank for car, truck or bus and the situation is about the same.

[Madness]

Show me someone on a learner's license that doesn't do this. In any type of vehicle. They don't exist.

So you're comparing a learner driver in a car who drives their car normally within a marked lane to a rider who rides within a 2-foot wide gap between lanes of stationary traffic?

Hardly a fair comparison, is it?

If the vehicle backing into you was a tank I would certainly say that would be the correct course of action. Change ute for bike and tank for car, truck or bus and the situation is about the same.

I wasn't referring to the action required if this was happening in front of me, I was referring to taking this approach at every instance I approach a set of traffic lights. If the vehicle was backing into me and I was directly in it's path it would be fairly obvious that evasive action was required. Sometimes though the obvious isn't so obvious to some, eh?

[sugilite:Me]

I'm forming the opinion that you are a cock and as such I will ignore your posts. Feel free to do the same.

I had you on ignore, but then 85% of this thread just disappeared!

[swbarnett]

I agree that we are human and we do make mistakes. That said, if you're riding a bike and you're squeezing between traffic when you collide with another vehicle I think you should take a really good look at yourself and ask the question "should I have been there?" I'd suggest that the answer in a lot of cases would be (if you're being honest with yourself) no.

I never said otherwise. That's why I'm a better splitter than I was when I started - hitting myself over the head (figuratively) for the slightest mistake.

Again, riding in a narrow gap between rows of motor vehicles is not the place to learn where the limits are or to be riding anywhere near the edge of ones ability. To do so is disrespectful of others and their property.

You can only learn so much in controlled conditions. Sooner or later you've got to bite the bullet and jump in, boots and all.

Yay! You're getting it. My comment was in light of the apperarance of you suggesting that motorists should cut learners some slack when it comes to them having their mirrors clipped. It does not matter how experienced the rider is in my opinion, see post #23.

No, I meant that you should cut everyone some slack because a. you don't know wether or not they should know better and b. shit happens, no harm no foul. I do it to car drivers that try and park on me quite regularly.

[Madness]

No, I meant that you should cut everyone some slack because a. you don't know wether or not they should know better

If they're in control of a motor vehicle on a public road then they should know better, end of story.

and b. shit happens, no harm no foul.

Shit doesn't just happen though, fuckwits make it happen. Again, just because in your esteemed opinion that a wing mirror that has been clipped by a splitting biker hasn't incurred physical damage it does not mean that no damage has been done by the collision. The hypothetical "damage free" collision has the potential to affect the opinion of other road users towards all motorcyclists, including those who don't lane split badly.

[swbarnett]

So you're comparing a learner driver in a car who drives their car normally within a marked lane to a rider who rides within a 2-foot wide gap between lanes of stationary traffic?

Hardly a fair comparison, is it?

It is if you consider that first time a novice car driver overtakes on the open road. Learning to drive in traffic necessitates using other vehicles as guinee pigs. That's why we have L plates. So that those other drivers know not to expect that novice to drive "normally".

I wasn't referring to the action required if this was happening in front of me, I was referring to taking this approach at every instance I approach a set of traffic lights. If the vehicle was backing into me and I was directly in it's path it would be fairly obvious that evasive action was required. Sometimes though the obvious isn't so obvious to some, eh?

I didn't explain it very well. What I meant was that I wouldn't feel too safe driving a ute in a line of tanks.

[swbarnett]

If they're in control of a motor vehicle on a public road then they should know better, end of story.

So noone's allowed to learn to drive then?