Lane splitting/filtering: the legal and commonsense answers

[Swoop]

Taupo is even big enough for a bypass!

The place is improving.

[MarkH]

Congratulations, that's the single most retarded KB post I've read this week.

You beat me to it.

These 2 posts seem pretty darned retarded to me - this is a discussion forum and neither posts contribute any discussion.

To suggest that "sitting in the lane and not splitting is silly and worse it is dangerous" is retarded and the statement itself is obviously flawed. This will give noobs the impression that they're "doing it wrong" by sitting in a queue of traffic and has the potential to push them beyond their abilities and into a dangerous situation.

The fuckwits on the video that MarkH posted are relying on some study done in USA Circa 1981 and a more recent % comparison of accidents involving motorcycles being rear-ended by cars in three different US States. Where's the comparison on accidents where bikes are side-swiped, cut off or simply lose it an go under? Where are the numbers to back up the percentages? Notice how wide the lanes are in the video? Notice it's unlike any motorway in Auckland where car drivers are hellbent on sudden lane changes and very little indication? The video strikes me as being made as some kind of lobbying tool for those states where splitting is illegal and I fail to see it doing their cause much good it was so bad.

I'm not anti lane-splitting. It is not safer than simply occupying a lane amongst traffic and should be executed with caution.

This posts is 100x better - actually sharing opinions and discussing the subject.

The truth is that I don't actually know the statistics in NZ for accidents during lane splitting vs being rear-ended while staying in your lane.
Maybe I only feel safer splitting, maybe my judgement is clouded because I've been rear ended when in a car and wish that I'd been on a bike so I would have had somewhere to go - I did see the ute in my rear view and knew he was going to hit me, if I had any room in front of me then I would have given him more space to stop.
I've also been in a position to ease off my brakes to provide more gap to the vehicle behind be that was locked up and starting to slide sideways - that could have been another rear-ending.

I've had one or 2 close calls while splitting but I've felt more in control and able to take action to avoid a collision.
While in a car I've always felt helpless and at the mercy of the skills of the driver behind me.
Maybe I'm wrong to back my skills over those of the random fucktards I share the road with.

I welcome you posting the stats to counter what those guys on the video were saying - there is nothing wrong with more/better information.
You clearly believe they are wrong - are you able to back up your opinions in any way?
I'm happy to change my mind when faced with evidence that what I think is wrong.

[Madness]

These 2 posts seem pretty darned retarded to me - this is a discussion forum and neither posts contribute any discussion.

This posts is 100x better - actually sharing opinions and discussing the subject.

I'm so pleased I'm meeting your post standards ya fucking princess.

The truth is that I don't actually know the statistics in NZ for accidents during lane splitting vs being rear-ended while staying in your lane.
Maybe I only feel safer splitting, maybe my judgement is clouded because I've been rear ended when in a car, blah blah blah

Maybe to all of those things, I don't really care. What basis do you have to claim that lane splitting is safer than sitting in traffic other than how you feel and your experiences of driving cars? Fuck all.

I've had one or 2 close calls while splitting

No shit?

I welcome you posting the stats to counter what those guys on the video were saying - there is nothing wrong with more/better information.
You clearly believe they are wrong - are you able to back up your opinions in any way?
I'm happy to change my mind when faced with evidence that what I think is wrong.

Sorry princess but you're the one making claims, how about you back those up? It's not a case of putting up stats to prove three fuckwits from USA are wrong. Their stats were probably correct for what they were - it's the claim being made as a result of their interpretation of flawed data.










Fucking scooter riders

[st00ji]

well shit, everyones personal experience is anecdotal, and stats and studies can be interpreted in 50 different ways. so ultimately it comes down to your personal interpretation doesnt it?

making out like everyone else is a retard because they dont believe the version of events that you do is a bit blinkered.

i certainly feel safer splitting on my bike than i do sitting in traffic, particularly stop start stuff. 4 or 5 years of daily commute, i might have done 30 or 40 days in a car. been rear ended twice while i was at a dead stop in those car trips, not particularly badly but if i had been on my bike and acting like i car, i'd have been fucked.

at least splitting my destiny is in my own hands. sitting stopped in traffic is trusting other drivers more than i care to on two wheels.

[Madness]

well shit, everyones personal experience is anecdotal, and stats and studies can be interpreted in 50 different ways. so ultimately it comes down to your personal interpretation doesnt it?

All of that is hardly fact and the statement made was erroneous.

making out like everyone else is a retard because they dont believe the version of events that you do is a bit blinkered.

Letting bullshit statements go unchallenged is a bit soft-cock. It was and still is my opinion that the statement was retarded, what's your problem?

i certainly feel safer splitting on my bike than i do sitting in traffic, particularly stop start stuff. 4 or 5 years of daily commute, i might have done 30 or 40 days in a car. been rear ended twice while i was at a dead stop in those car trips, not particularly badly but if i had been on my bike and acting like i car, i'd have been fucked.

I'm real happy for you, honest.

at least splitting my destiny is in my own hands. sitting stopped in traffic is trusting other drivers more than i care to on two wheels.

You carry on believeing that, just don't try & convince others it's a matter of fact.

[wysper]

at least splitting my destiny is in my own hands. sitting stopped in traffic is trusting other drivers more than i care to on two wheels.

All personal opinion of course.
But I think you are at the mercy of others far more when splitting than when in the line.
In the line you are at the mercy of the one car behind you. (excluding something coming up a million miles an hour and taking out more than one car)

When you are splitting/filtering, you seem to be at the mercy of every vehicle you pass (one on each side) and every vehicle you approach.

That sounds more dangerous to me than waiting in line. You may feel you have more control - but to me, looking from the outside, it doesn't appear so.

I am not anti splitting or filtering, just looking at it from a slightly different angle.

[swbarnett]

All personal opinion of course.
But I think you are at the mercy of others far more when splitting than when in the line.
In the line you are at the mercy of the one car behind you. (excluding something coming up a million miles an hour and taking out more than one car)

You're forgetting about the car to either side that thinks where you are is an empty space. When travelling in line with traffic (especially on a small, quiet bike) you are not seen by all drivers. All some see is empty space and may try to change lanes in to it or brake in time to avoid hitting the car in front of you but not you.

When you are splitting/filtering, you seem to be at the mercy of every vehicle you pass (one on each side) and every vehicle you approach.

When you're splitting you're travelling faster than the traffic flow. This puts you in control. The choice of whether or not to take a gap is yours, not that of the drivers to either side of the gap. There is also the psycological aspect. A car driver is unlikely to try to change lanes when they know there's a vehicle in that lane large enough to be a threat. Thus travelling through the gap comes with a minimal risk of being sandwiched. And that risk can be managed by not taking gaps so narrow that you have no room to maneuvre if they do move over. How narrow that gap can be depends on your speed and the traffic speed. I've had drivers close the gap on me but I've either been going slow enough that a quick application of the brakes pulled me back out of harm's way or fast enough to accelerate out the front. I am very reluctant to split between two trucks because the time it takes to get through is too long to maintain an acceptable margin for error.

That sounds more dangerous to me than waiting in line. You may feel you have more control - but to me, looking from the outside, it doesn't appear so.

Appearances can be deceiving. Motorcycling looks extremely dangerous to those that haven't tried it and don't know any riders. This doesn't mean it is.

[st00ji]

Letting bullshit statements go unchallenged is a bit soft-cock. It was and still is my opinion that the statement was retarded, what's your problem?

You carry on believeing that, just don't try & convince others it's a matter of fact.

for sure, bullshit statements should not be left unchallenged - which is why i questioned your unsupported, blanket statement. obviously we should just assume that everything you say is correct and leave it at that? you should be the prime minister or something.

the hypocrisy is quite amusing.

on what basis is it 'retarded'? what is your 'fact' based on? the comments about discussion made above were quite valid i thought.

i agree completely with what swbarnett has just posted, hence why i choose to split.

as a wise man once said to me, listen to everyone then make up your own mind.

edit - having re-read your posts all at once you are obviously trolling. yawn.

[Katman]

as a wise man once said to me, listen to everyone then make up your own mind.

A wiser one once said "think before opening your mouth".

[st00ji]

A wiser one once said "think before opening your mouth".

thanks for that contribution.

[Madness]

for sure, bullshit statements should not be left unchallenged - which is why i questioned your unsupported, blanket statement. obviously we should just assume that everything you say is correct and leave it at that? you should be the prime minister or something.

the hypocrisy is quite amusing.

on what basis is it 'retarded'? what is your 'fact' based on? the comments about discussion made above were quite valid i thought.

i agree completely with what swbarnett has just posted, hence why i choose to split.

as a wise man once said to me, listen to everyone then make up your own mind.

If lane-splitting is safer than riding in the queue then why isn't the practice taught to learners as part of the licencing system? The simple fact that you and a few others think it's safer to ride with 500mm or so between you & other vehicles than it is to ride with several metres gap does not mean splitting is safer. Mr Branett is one of the biggest fuckwits on this forum who thinks it's quite acceptable behaviour to clip the wing mirrors of other vehicles so it surprises me not that he agrees with you & MarkH the scooter rider.

Again, what facts are the claims that splitting is safer based on? I'm yet to see anything other than that lame video, the opinion of a scooter rider and some spotty oik on a 250. Hardly fucking science, innit?

You can have your opinion, cherish it for all I care. Lane splitting is not safer than riding in the queue and to believe otherwise is pure fantasy.

Retards.

[st00ji]

your entire position is based on opinion, same as mine. so you go ahead and cherish your opinion too i guess?

i dont see how what we ride has anything to do with our ability to observe and draw conclusions based on those observations.

i'd love to see stats or studies either way on the subject. i've asked for peoples stories about lane splitting accidents elsewhere too. i cant say i have ever seen any bikers go down as a result of splitting myself.

please change my mind about this with some actual discussion, calling me a retard is not working.

edit - its possible mr barnett is 'biggest fuckwit', i cant say i've noticed much else he has posted. i was endorsing one post, not his entire existence.

[Katman]

i cant say i have ever seen any bikers go down as a result of splitting myself.

You're clearly not looking hard enough.

[st00ji]

i dont think Lane splitting is safer than riding in the queue and in my opinion to believe otherwise is pure fantasy.

fixed that for ya

[st00ji]

You're clearly not looking hard enough.

all i touch and all i see, is all my life will ever be.

nowhere have i said it doesnt happen. just that i havent seen it / heard of it.

feel free to enlighten me.