Nepotism? What nepotism.

[kerryg]

Sooooo......does anyone actually know whether the Wananga is achieving its stated aims, whatever they might be?

Whether the Wananga delivers a first rate educational product or not, it's irrelevant to this discussion. This discussion concerns the abuse of a position of authority to garner benefits for family members, extravagance with expenditure, etc. I personally couldn't care less if it's the very best "university" in the whole wide world....if it is, it's in spite of its greedy and incompetent CEO.

That having been said, the fact that Rongo Wetere is an arse doesn't make the Wananga an unworthy institution. From what I've heard it has a real and useful purpose in re-introducing to education people who fell through the cracks at school. There's everything right with the intention, just a pity that some greedy bastard sees it as his personal cash-cow.

[vifferman]

Commissions of Enquiry only make people look bad

I worked with this guy once, who said that Commissions of Enquiry really only exist as a sort of pressure-relief valve. Some 'thing' happens, people find out about it, get all excited and wave their arms around, a Commission of Enquiry is called (and fat cats are paid to sit on it and eat lunch), they suck up lots of public moneys, publish some boring report (so long after the event, that no-one can remember what the fuss was all about), the report is stuffed into some vault or filing cabinet somewhere, and all the heat and steam is dissipated till the next 'scandal'.
What really changes? - Nothing.
What is accomplished? - Very little.
What do we learn from the mistakes that were made? - Probably nothing.

If we're really unlucky, someone will pass a new law, and our freedoms will be encumbered a little bit more.


I have summat else to say (bullshit, of course, just like all my other pronouncements). It doesn't really excuse it, seeing it's public money, not iwi money, but from what I understand, nepotism, and helping out the iwi/hapu/whanau in this way, when you're in a position to do so, is pretty much an accepted part of maoritanga. If the Gubmint's dumb enough/bending over backwards enough to not put checks and balances in place, then the Gubmint's at fault, not the Wananga or Wetere or whoever.

[idb]

Whether the Wananga delivers a first rate educational product or not, it's irrelevant to this discussion. This discussion concerns the abuse of a position of authority to garner benefits for family members, extravagance with expenditure, etc. I personally couldn't care less if it's the very best "university" in the whole wide world....if it is, it's in spite of its greedy and incompetent CEO.

That having been said, the fact that Rongo Wetere is an arse doesn't make the Wananga an unworthy institution. From what I've heard it has a real and useful purpose in re-introducing to education people who fell through the cracks at school. There's everything right with the intention, just a pity that some greedy bastard sees it as his personal cash-cow.

But if it's providing improvement to hundreds or thousands of people, dragging them up to a better place and so benefitting the country as a whole maybe we should temper our shittiness or jealousy at seeing a few do well financially out of it.
Is it any different to seeing a CEO paid well and receiving extra perks to lead a company to greater profits?

[kerryg]

Is it any different to seeing a CEO paid well and receiving extra perks to lead a company to greater profits?

Yes, it is, profoundly different in fact. Public (taxpayers) money that should be paying for education for MAORI (the very people for whom the Wanaga was set up) etc etc has been diverted to a handful of individuals, principally 17 of Wtere's family members. Perhaps you haven't been reading the reports (have a look at today's Herald). It is simply misleading to compare that to a private company paying its people well. Not even in the same general ballpark.

[kerryg]

I worked with this guy once, who said that Commissions of Enquiry really only exist as a sort of pressure-relief valve. Some 'thing' happens, people find out about it, get all excited and wave their arms around, a Commission of Enquiry is called (and fat cats are paid to sit on it and eat lunch), they suck up lots of public moneys, publish some boring report (so long after the event, that no-one can remember what the fuss was all about), the report is stuffed into some vault or filing cabinet somewhere, and all the heat and steam is dissipated till the next 'scandal'.
What really changes? - Nothing.
What is accomplished? - Very little.
What do we learn from the mistakes that were made? - Probably nothing.

If we're really unlucky, someone will pass a new law, and our freedoms will be encumbered a little bit more.


I have summat else to say (bullshit, of course, just like all my other pronouncements). It doesn't really excuse it, seeing it's public money, not iwi money, but from what I understand, nepotism, and helping out the iwi/hapu/whanau in this way, when you're in a position to do so, is pretty much an accepted part of maoritanga. If the Gubmint's dumb enough/bending over backwards enough to not put checks and balances in place, then the Gubmint's at fault, not the Wananga or Wetere or whoever.

1. Yes, I reckon that the use of Commissions of Inquiry is a tactic to placate the public in many instances. By setting the time frame and the scope a certain way, hand-picking the person to lead the inquiry etc etc it is possible to exercise a little spin.

2. Ian , I have to disagree about blaming the Government. Because I was careless enough to leave my house unlocked, does not excuse your robbing me. Yes, the Government has cocked up, no question.They should have been more careful. Heads should roll and arses should be kicked...but they won't because its politically embarrassing.

[vifferman]

Because I was careless enough to leave my house unlocked, does not excuse your robbing me.

I hope you don't want your stuff back - it's already on TardMe.

Yes, the Government has cocked up, no question.They should have been more careful. Heads should roll and arses should be kicked...but they won't because its politically embarrassing.

I think it may be more that they don't want to get offside with Maori or risk any possible taint of 'racism' accusations.

I'll be relieved when the anti-PC revolution brings and end to the safety/PC Nazis' reign of error.

[Damon]

But if it's providing improvement to hundreds or thousands of people, dragging them up to a better place and so benefitting the country as a whole maybe we should temper our shittiness or jealousy at seeing a few do well financially out of it.
Is it any different to seeing a CEO paid well and receiving extra perks to lead a company to greater profits?

I think if you were to compare the Wanaga with the same type of institution run by people who don't hand out contracts willy nilly to family and friends at pumped up prices, then the professionally run university would probably do just as well if not better and would probably save the tax payer a bit of money in the process, I'm sure Rongo's private first class trips would be better used to pay for actual educational needs.

Now on a slightly different track but still related, is it me or has Maori's worst enemy changed from the white guys to themselves? with Donna steeling money from the kids and now Rongo miss using money for the under educated, where is this going? If we give them the foreshore and seabed (I hope they don't) I bet they stop all non Maori from accessing it and then start selling it back to us? I know it's only a few Maori that are doing it but their the ones that are making the noise, not the ones we all seemed to have grown up with telling them to shut up.

[kerryg]

I hope you don't want your stuff back - it's already on TardMe.


I think it may be more that they don't want to get offside with Maori or risk any possible taint of 'racism' accusations.

I'll be relieved when the anti-PC revolution brings and end to the safety/PC Nazis' reign of error.

BTW I see you're about to hit 5000 posts. Not very busy at work again eh? (I know what it's like).

Yes, you are correct I'm sure about the getting offside with Maori thing. Personally I don't mind. I had an overseas visitor (Japanese) once and he asked me whast percentage of the population was Maori. I guessed about 10%. He looked at me and smiled and said. "so...no problem"

[kerryg]

Actually I think this Wananga thing is a bit of a watershed for me. I've tried pretty hard to keep a reasonably middle of the road (perhaps with the slightest leftward-leaning orientation) position on things Maori. On this forum I have defended Maori. I feel strongly that they have been shafted by generations of pakeha and that their educational and economic under-achievement has its roots in that unfortunate past. But this Wananga thing, shit, man, they're fucking laughing at us.

[idb]

Yes, it is, profoundly different in fact. Public (taxpayers) money that should be paying for education for MAORI (the very people for whom the Wanaga was set up) etc etc has been diverted to a handful of individuals, principally 17 of Wtere's family members. Perhaps you haven't been reading the reports (have a look at today's Herald). It is simply misleading to compare that to a private company paying its people well. Not even in the same general ballpark.

Tax payer funded/owned organisations from hospitals to schools are expected produce a measurable return in the modern system.
How can we expect government-funded organisations to return the same results that those that are privately-owned expect (however the results might be judged) if the former are not allowed to be run in the same manner as the latter?

A private company will count many extra expenses that the executive at the top rack up (including taking family on holidays, employing family in holiday jobs etc) as the cost of doing business - as long as the profits continue to come in.

Maybe all the other tax payer-funded agencies are doing it wrong............

[Damon]

they're fucking laughing at us.

Your right, I'm the same, try to keep as open minded and level headed as possible but eventualy you realise there are some, who are out to ride on the back of the big white train as far as they can, and the thing is "our" government lets them,

[kerryg]

Tax payer funded/owned organisations from hospitals to schools are expected produce a measurable return in the modern system.
How can we expect government-funded organisations to return the same results that those that are privately-owned expect (however the results might be judged) if the former are not allowed to be run in the same manner as the latter?

A private company will count many extra expenses that the executive at the top rack up (including taking family on holidays, employing family in holiday jobs etc) as the cost of doing business - as long as the profits continue to come in.

Maybe all the other tax payer-funded agencies are doing it wrong............

I think we are at cross-purposes. I don't have any issue at all with government-funded organisations rewarding their employees in a similar manner to private ones, none whatsoever. I don't know what Wetere's package is but if he was good at his job and that's what the market requires that he be paid, that's fine. But he has mis-used his position as a "trustee" of the public interest as the boss of the Wananga, an organisatioin set up to promote higher eucation to the educationally-disadvantaged , to give financial favours to his rellies. He has made decisions involving millions of dollars of public money (it really is different from someone spending private capital however difficult you find that distinction to accept) without consulting others, putting money in the pockets of his family. That's the crux of it.

OK he's also wasted money on first class travel, he's spent over $40000 in cash in daily out of pocket expenditure without receipts on a business trip to Cuba etc etc. Maybe a particularly stupid/profligate/greedy/ self-aggrandising CEO in the private sector might do that...but not for long I'll dare to speculate. But these are minor in comparison to the conflicts of interest inherent in awarding uncontested contracts, with a cost to the public of NZ of $70 million, to your family.

[Hitcher]

Your right, I'm the same

Your left, No you're not...

[Damon]

Tax payer funded/owned organisations from hospitals to schools are expected produce a measurable return in the modern system.
How can we expect government-funded organisations to return the same results that those that are privately-owned expect (however the results might be judged) if the former are not allowed to be run in the same manner as the latter?

A private company will count many extra expenses that the executive at the top rack up (including taking family on holidays, employing family in holiday jobs etc) as the cost of doing business - as long as the profits continue to come in.

Maybe all the other tax payer-funded agencies are doing it wrong............

tax payer-funded agencies dont charge the customer full price, if they started charging us like private schools or private hopitals do then sure, they can do that kind of thing but when they are trying to save money so they can save me money then they can pay for their own f@#k'n holidays like the rest of us

[TONO]

That was one of the other findings, there was no 'due process', or many other procedures either.
Performance is difficult to quantify in this case. They did raise the roll from around 1000 students to 60,000. But with allowances for subjects like twilight golf and singing along to the radio on offer, I guess it would not be difficult to perform.

Don't forget the free cellphones and free overseas trips.