Lawyers and the school system

[rogson]

I watched with interest a Closeup piece on lawyers getting involved in determining the "fair " treatment of disruptive school kids. In a nutshell my interpretation of the lawyers' thesis is that the common practice of suspending them from school denied them from receiving an education, and given that the school can make such an uncontested and potentially arbitrary ruling, the individual could suffer an unfair denial of their access to an education.

So, ultimately does this mean we should be prepared to spend disproportionally more money on the "failures"?

I am happy to be enlightened if my interpretation is wrong but in the meantime ponder the following observations:

A cynic would say we have educated too many lawyers in recent years and as a result they are finding it difficult to employ everyone and maintain their incomes. What better than to open a "new front" targeting the education system, particularly in view of the fact that the respondent is the government (i.e. taxpayer) and they are "good for the money" . The words "gravy train" come to mind[/LIST]

A liberal would say the state funded education system is a form of institutionalised daycare. It is simply society's most efficient solution to keeping kids off the streets while mum and dad pursue gainful and productive employment. The fact that some get an education and become productive members of society is a future benefit to society which defrays the current cost (perhaps even provides a return on it). The ones that don't? - well lets not let them disrupt those that do (and thereby jepoardise the benefit), and in any event society has established another institution for them - the welfare system.

A socialist would say lets spend the time and effort on them because ultimately we want an egalatarian society, and all individuals contribute equally to society regardless of the purely economic benefits they may bring.

I guess fundamentally NZ society has decided that individuals have a right to a certain level of education, and is willing to provide resources for that. If certain individuals don't take advantage of it, then so be it, but lets not divert resources from those that do - even better, lets concentrate on those that do!

[Hitcher]

Invest in the underachievers, let the smart kids fend for themselves. This is the "education" system New Zealanders have always embraced. Clearly the rabid pursuit of mediocrity has much to commend it...

[TwoSeven]

I've never in my few decades on the planet met any 'failures'. I have however seen plenty of schools crap at teaching. Yes, more money should be spent on teachning schools to do their jobs - some are piss poor at it anyhow (probably what you get from a system run by a comittee of parents).

[rogson]

I've never in my few decades on the planet met any 'failures'. I have however seen plenty of schools crap at teaching.....

Oh, how dumb of me - of course, its the governments fault.

[Pathos]

Many schools do suck at teaching. Many pupils don't have attitude to get what they can out of what is provided.

I reckon school kids need a wake call before 5th form. The should be kicked out into the real world and get a real job for a year and get a perspective on how much their education means to them. I had absolutely no idea about reality until I got a proper job as a drain layer over a christmas holiday.

I learnt how decent people treat each other not like the shits at school.
I learnt work means work.
I learnt how important that fornightly check was.

No one in school can learn these things unless they get experience it. This generation of young adults have been babysat from the day they were born and that doesn't help anyone.

[thehollowmen]

arg there are some real issues with education in this country, and not just the schools.

A university 3-4 year degree is now the equivilent of what sixth form was in the 90s. Everybody had it and it doesn't mean too much appart from that you can put in hard slog for 3-4 years.

bluh

we should contract out the running on NCEA and the schools to some strict country where all the work is done to a high level. I can tell you stories about five hour (one essay) exams in high school if you want.

[WINJA]

IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER , WHEN I DID WORK AT SOME LAWYERS OFFICE I ALWAYS PISSED IN THEIR HAND BASIN

[cowpoos]

whats everyone drinking tonight....I'm drinking the rather common DB draught...not a bad beer...but not the best...it was on special...and I can't argue with those economics...

[Hitcher]

IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER , WHEN I DID WORK AT SOME LAWYERS OFFICE I ALWAYS PISSED IN THEIR HAND BASIN

The first rule of Fight Club is not to talk about Fight Club...

[thehollowmen]

whats everyone drinking tonight

Astrolabe Sauvignon Blanc

good stuff that 2005 vintage.

Unknown vinyard strikes out for gold.. I'd recomend it

[cowpoos]

Astrolabe Sauvignon Blanc

good stuff that 2005 vintage.

Unknown vinyard strikes out for gold.. I'd recomend it

I like the drys...montana has a good sav...I'm on a budjet now I got the new bike...I get more miles out of beer...

[Lou Girardin]

Shakespeare was almost right.
First we kill all the ambulance chasers.

[ManDownUnder]

I'm seriously considering approaching the school(s) our kids go to and letting them know that a kiwi suspension is fine with me.

If I find the school has done something dumb - I'll change schools (let's face it - I wouldn't want my kids to be there otherwise). But up front I'll happily put my trust in the teachers and principals.

I'll also listen to what my kids tell me is going on to get a somewhat balancing opinion but short of my kids being permanently locked out of an education, I can NOT see a point where I would get lawyers involved.

Or did I miss something?
MDU

[Beemer]

I reckon the lawyers are just trying to muscle in on a new income stream! The schools have been doing fine without them all these years, but now you can't look at a kid the wrong way without it going to court, so I suppose the schools that think this is a good idea are only trying to cover their arses.

When I was at school it was the old story about the squeaky wheel getting the oil. The bright kids who did well just shut up and did their work while the underachievers (who go on to excel on the dole, funnily enough) played merry hell with the teachers.

At least we were lucky enough not to have to deal with the mentally disabled or attention deficit kids who are now mainstreamed.

[madboy]

What about the bright kids that were so bored out of their tree that they acted up and took the attention away from the dumbasses the teachers were trying to bring up to average?

NZ is going down the toilet. We are so PC that we measure success by participation. Which works extremely well in the real world. Prospective employers are always thankful that 119 people participated in applying for the position, even more grateful that 5 participated in the interviews. And one extra lucky individual got to participate in WORK.

Life is about winners and losers. Unfortunately NZ is full of whiners and losers. The winners left.