Climate change

[inlinefour]

You mean I should stop burning them? The bastards swore they were 100% organic, and would never harm the planet.

In fact we all need to burn them more. The world would b a better place without the misinformed twerps.

[froggyfrenchman]

More crap congered up by the great unwashed! Those damn hippies have nothin better to do with their time than dream up this crap. I guess you could call them "smoke dreams"?

[APPLE]

yeh man?its gettn worser everyear.i seen somethin on tele few weeks ago,bout china man,lettn russia dump or there waste in dere rivers and streams man?and they get millions for it?wots up with that..these dudes dont care bout the rest of the world man?

[SPman]

wots up with that..these dudes dont care bout the rest of the world man?

Aaah, but they make squillions of cheap doo-dads, for the world to squander its money on. Who cares about the environment when you're makin squillions!

[Skyryder]

Global warming is a fact not an idea.
I was at a presentation given by some of our countries top meteorologists just a few weeks ago. Temperature records go back several hundred years and despite seasonal variations there has been an overal increase recorded in temps that started around the time of the industrial revolution and has been more rapid in the last 10 years.
So the planet is getting warmer - its an obserserved and recorded fact
Why the planet is getting warmer is where the debate is. Is it a natural cycle or is it due to pollution? Is it a coincindence that temps really started to rise with industrialisation and the burning of fossil fuels etc? is it a coincidence that CO2 levels in the atmoshere have increased over the same time span?
Go figure.

This post just saved me the time and trouble to go and search the data. It is no coincidence that temperture have risen starting from the industrial revolution. Just did quick search and found this

From 1550 to 1850 AD global temperatures were at their coldest since the beginning of the Holocene. Scientists call this period the Little Ice Age. During the Little Ice Age, the average annual temperature of the Northern Hemisphere was about 1.0 degree Celsius lower than today. During the period 1580 to 1600, the western United States experienced one of its longest and most severe droughts in the last 500 years. Cold weather in Iceland from 1753 and 1759 caused 25 % of the population to die from crop failure and famine. Newspapers in New England were calling 1816 the year without a summer.

The period 1850 to present is one of general warming. Figure 7x-1 describes the global temperature trends from 1880 to 1999. This graph shows the yearly temperature anomalies that have occurred from an average global temperature calculated for the period 1951-1980. The graph indicates that the anomolies for the first 60 years of the record were consistently negative. However, beginning in 1935 positive anomolies became more common, and from 1980 to 1999 the anomolies were between 0.2 to 0.4° Celsius higher that the average for the 119 year period of study.

Figure 7x-1: Near-global annual-mean temperature change for the period 1880 to 1999 (deviation from the normal period 1951-1980). (Source: NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies - Global Temperature Trends).



In the 1930s and 1950s, the central United States experience two periods of extreme drought. The 1980s and 1990s had ten of the warmest years this century and possibly since the Little Climatic Optimum. Proxy and instrumental data indicate that 1998 was the warmest year globally in 1200 years of Earth history. In the following year, a La Nina developed and global temperatures dropped slightly. Nevertheless, the mean global temperatures recorded for this year was the sixth highest measurement since 1880. Many scientists believe the warmer temperatures of the 20th century are being caused by an enhancement of the Earth's greenhouse effect.

Figure 7x-2: In 1999, most parts of the world were warmer than normal. The illustration above describes the annual temperature deviation (from the base period 1950-1980) in degrees Celsius for the Earth's surface. The illustration indicates that it was particularly warm across most of North America, northern Africa, and most of Eurasia. The tropical Pacific Ocean was cool due to a strong La Nina. (Source: NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies - Global Temperature Trends).

This from

http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/7x.html

I'm still reminded of Galileo

Glileo The earth is not the centre of the Universe

Pope. Yes it is

Galileo No it's not

People Yes it is. O course it is. It has always been.............

Me. Open your eyes..............


Skyryder

[TwoSeven]

Another thing to consider is we've only been studying climate and weather as a science within the scientific model framework for a 160 years. What the hell do we know? A planet 4000 years old, or 4000 million years old, 160 years isn't what any scientist could call a decent sample, as the sample most likely falls within a margin of error for the 4000 years let alone 4000 million.

A thought to ponder: most CO2 in our atmosphere comes from tectonic activity. Volcanoes and the Mid-Atlantic trench contribute a far greater tonnage to our atmosphere than man does.

The planet has endured warming and cooling cycles without our apparent "intervention" uncountable times.

Your point seems to reflect many of the other nay sayer brigade posts and I somewhat disagree with it. There has been a project going on around the planet that has been testing ice core samples. They now have temperature and weather conditions going back a few thousand years, and also methane and C02 levels going back 650k years. In one of the following examples there is a statement that backs your generic cyclic argument (which I notice you cite no references to back up)

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...home-headlines
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/monsoon.htm
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...05/1009/NEWS07
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/thompcon.htm

This one is a good one
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/bullet...52047/2b86c112

etc.

I do notice the nay sayers seem to either misquote or forget to reference. I wonder why that is ?

[Dammad]

if it is going to be nice and hot then im on my bike more

[What?]

It's all part of a natural cycle that has been turned into a gravy train by a bunch of losers who've realised that they couldn't make a living from the qual's they got at uni unless such a gravy train was built.

[APPLE]

yo?that is HEAVY?skyrider???

[WINJA]

note the government will always back the science that nets the most tax , the cfc levy is pathetic , they taxed r22 with 1/10 the odp of r12 or r11 at the same rate , then they took no initiatives with the money instead throwing most of it into the consolidated fund.
who sponsors the science is also important , ie if dupont funds ozone research , then the scientist find cfcs are ruining the ozone layer dupont then lobbys the governments who sign the montreal protocol all the time dupont has waiting in the wings a new line up of refrigerants which gives them the same stronghold they had in the market that they had when the first introduced cfcs and hcfcs years ago , and they new it was coming so had 5 years of research ahead of allied signal , rhodia and ici etc , what a fucken crock.
the governments scream about the enviroment yet they wont regulate the aircon and refrigeration industries , its all about the mighty dollar.

[Pixie]

If we all stop burning fossil fuels and started burning hippies would that make difference?

No.
The hippies think that everything will be ok if we just live in some idealised iron age society.
The only thing wrong with the environment is 6,000,000,000 Humans.
Nature is in the process of making a few tweaks and adjustments,and eventually will succeed in reducing this imbalance,one way or another.

In the meantime, the greenies can help by commiting suicide.

As for extinction;as far as nature is concerned, big deal.If some stupid whale dies out, Nature just has some other critter evolve into the vacant niche.
Do you cry yourself to sleep because there are no longer any ammonites?

As for me;I plan to be dead in less than 50 years,and don't really give a toss.

And if it is a threat to humanity;Nature will have suceeded and it will be a good thing

[Pixie]

For those that think the climate is not changing. Take a look at these. The first is a from 1981 and the second is from 91. The link

http://www.atm.ch.cam.ac.uk/tour/

There's plenty of science out there that this is happening. Mind you when Galileo could proove that the earth was not the centre of the Universe but moved around the sun...................

Skyryder

Once again someone confuses global warming with the ozone hole

[Hitcher]

The Government is committed to a whole bunch of stuff because it signed the Kyoto Protocol. Given the uptake of these measures globally -- even by the US, although not a formal signatory -- there is no going back.

Energy use and efficiency measures make good sense, particularly when most fossil fuels are a finite and diminishing resource.

While people moan about carbon taxes, they won't be set high enough to make the differences they should -- like stopping kindy mums using the Pajero to take Finn and Tiffany to school, or popping down the road to the dairy for a bottle of milk, a packet of Holiday and a Woman's Day.

So go and plant some trees. Quickly.

[WINJA]

the government is committed to a whole bunch of stuff because it signed the kyoto protocol. given the uptake of these measures globally -- even by the us, although not a formal signatory -- there is no going back.

energy use and efficiency measures make good sense, particularly when most fossil fuels are a finite and diminishing resource.

while people moan about carbon taxes, they won't be set high enough to make the differences they should -- like stopping kindy mums using the pajero to take finn and tiffany to school, or popping down the road to the dairy for a bottle of milk, a packet of holiday and a woman's day.

so go and plant some trees. quickly.


yeah same ,i hate everyone

[Skyryder]

Once again someone confuses global warming with the ozone hole

From http://www.environ.com/Globalwarming...rmingozone.htm


Global Warming Can Increase Ozone Depletion
Scientist's are concerned that continued global warming will accelerate ozone destruction and increase stratospheric ozone depletion. Ozone depletion gets worse when the stratosphere (where the ozone layer is), becomes colder. Because global warming traps heat in the troposphere, less heat reaches the stratosphere which will make it colder. Greenhouse gases act like a blanket for the troposphere and make the stratosphere colder. In other words, global warming can make ozone depletion much worse right when it is supposed to begin its recovery during the next century.

****

Nothing confused with me.


Skyryder