Suspension settings.. has anyone tried....

[TwoSeven]

Which sag is everyone on about, unladen, laden, or static ?

[cowpoos]

Which sag is everyone on about, unladen, laden, or static ?

unladen is static....rider sag is the best comprimise if springs are light....buggy ain't the biggest lad so he'll probally get pretty close on the standard spring....to getting the right rider and static sag

[cowpoos]

lift the rear? k, first one to suggest that..
but if the back is fine, then surely you'd leave it? The change is to the front tyre..

Also, is there a 'rule-of-thumb' for sag? The links suggest for bike sag 'The rear sag should be somewhere between zero and 10 millimetres and the front between 20 and 30 millimetres.' And the rider sag 'should fall somewhere in the vicinity of 25-35mm front and rear'. Is that about right for a sprotsbike?

when you increased the front tyre profile you effectivly lifted the front 5mm...and lessened the swingarm angle in the process....if you drop the forks through the yokes...you will lose ground clearence...if you lift the rear you will gain it...and by doing that you will make more use of the width of your front tyre...even though most people get rid of the chicken strips on there rear tyres most of them still have them on the front tyre....that tells you...that you have even more lean angle to use up...
http://www.gostar-racing.com/informa...ion_set-up.htm

that should set u on the right path

I really think the biggest question is....what is your bike doing that you don't like???? and if you don't know [don't take this the wrong way] its probally because your bike is more than capable of handling your riding ability as it is right now...could be worth while possibly focusing on improving your riding and at some stage it might start to show up weak-nesses in your bikes handling...

but if your heart is set on playing with your bikes handling.... buy this http://www.traxxion.com/store/detail...oduct_id=SUS4V its avalible from robert taylor in hawera 06 2784160

[bugjuice]

that link to the vid is pretty cool.

As for what my bike is doing that I don't like, it's too harsh. I feel I can push the bike a bit more, but it feels every bump in the road, and the front just skips like hell. It's still pretty much factory set, so I know it isn't set for me. I'll try setting the sag as what that other link mentions and see what sort of difference that makes in the handling.

Ideally, I wanted to try this at the track. Have the bike out at what it is now, then reset the sag and work from there, doing a session on each new setting. I've ridden the bike for over a year set how it is now, and I'm starting to get to the point where it's too skitish, and I've not touched the set up really. So if I can make the bike handle better, I can then progress my skills a bit more.. or so me thinkin goes.. I just don't want to make an 'ok' handling bike, crap. I'd rather make it better..

[cowpoos]

that link to the vid is pretty cool.

As for what my bike is doing that I don't like, it's too harsh. I feel I can push the bike a bit more, but it feels every bump in the road, and the front just skips like hell. It's still pretty much factory set, so I know it isn't set for me. I'll try setting the sag as what that other link mentions and see what sort of difference that makes in the handling.

Ideally, I wanted to try this at the track. Have the bike out at what it is now, then reset the sag and work from there, doing a session on each new setting. I've ridden the bike for over a year set how it is now, and I'm starting to get to the point where it's too skitish, and I've not touched the set up really. So if I can make the bike handle better, I can then progress my skills a bit more.. or so me thinkin goes.. I just don't want to make an 'ok' handling bike, crap. I'd rather make it better..

when you ring up robert about that vid....if you do...tell him what you just said about how your bike behaves.....he will have the right answer for you...as he knows more about suspension than anyone else in the country...they don't call him DR robert for nothing

[Brian d marge]

Go to Dr Taylor, or tjebe briun or who ever. BUT go prepared,

Get a good section of road .with ripples on the racing line..( easy on a mx track)
Mark the ideal racing line. ( floro paint !!!!to transit NZ ... Now go through the line at a slower speed . with someone video taping you so that you can see both suspension working AND the ideal line markers,

Now do the same but faster,( without changing the suspension settings ...*they should be set at factory or as close to the ideal sag as you can get ...without using to much preload ... you will find the bike tucks in /drifts out , this is the compression/rebound setting relationship between front and rear.
* eg, if the rebound is to soft you will unload the front and the front will drift out towards the outside of the corner *

The short story is if you show this tape to a suspension tuner , they will be able to set up your bike More accurately , than if you just turned up and said the bike feels harsh.

I did this with my MX bike and I SAW and realized what was going on with my bike ( it had been valved for a light rider and I am a fat bastard, so the rebound _ on the front _ needed two 0.2 shims on the rebound valve .
Along with the video
take your weight WITH riding gear, And a realistic comparison to a well known racer... ( or any comparison that will give him a idea of your riding style, experience )

You should get back a bike that will only need a few clicks either way on the adjusters , to get it feeling sweet ....

Well worth the money and time invested ......

BTW What bike and what wieghts are we talking about


Stephen

[R1madness]

Forget all that crap. Write down what the current settings are. Fiddle with the knobs one at a time and see what the bike does. Does it run wide on the exit? Does it turn in faster or slower? When you open the throttle does it sink badly in the rear? Does it wheelstand more/easier on the gas? Do you want that? Is it harsh over the bumps? Does it shake its head more on the gas? Do you care? Does it feel better on the front end under brakes? Is it bouncy? Does it feel better?
You will feel the difference in a few corners if you pick a bit of road or track you know well and do the adjustments on the side of the road.
The funny thing is what feels better is not necessarly faster. the stopwatch tells the truth where riders lie.
Did you know that when Arron Slight and Colin Edwards both ran RC45s they ran totaly opposite suspension settings? What matters is that the suspension suits your riding style, not some magical number that suits the average rider on the average condition new bike on the average road or track. Too many averages.......

[Lou Girardin]

better to lift the rear 5mm...other wise your going to be changing the swingarms angle by dropping the forks...I think you can lift the rear using shims on zx6

Other way round. Raising the rear ride height alters the swing arm angle and can cause traction problems accelerating out of corners. This is from the gospel according to Ohlins.

[Ducman]

I raised the rear 8mm on my ZX6R G1. It has the effect of putting more weight over the front, and can help with drive out of the corner, just like dropping the forks only your not sacrificing ground clearance

[bugjuice]

lol.. gotta love gospel stuff.. but yeah, I haven't heard of raising the back, it's always been to drop the front back to the height that it would be with a stock tyre. Other wise, you'd have lifted the whole bike, instead of adjusting back to stock height.

R1M - as for what the bike is doing, the ride is feeling harsh. I've put up with it and adapted my riding style to suit the bike. But I've never pushed any other bike like I push mine, so I have no idea if it's the crappest handling bike in the world (it couldn't be, cos there's not a lot that bike could do wrong ). When I'm taking corners, if I run wide or shallow, I just adjust it. Cos I've got no other bike experience other than this bike, I can't say if it's the bikes' fault or mine. I just adjust to the condition and deal with it. Not saying that I'm a crap rider, or the bike is crap, just saying that so far, I've just dealt with it and rode to the conditions. But now I feel there there's a bit more to unlock in me and the bike. Everyone who's bought an 03/04 ZX6 has said the ride is too solid. Well now I have stepped up my game, the bike is broke in well, and the settings are all stock, I feel it's time to start looking at more technical things to help improve my game, and the bikes' ability. I'll start with setting the sag properly (this I've never done, but read on doing it, so can't be too hard), and then from there, I'll have a look at what other people have posted their settings for the bike and their details (rider height and weight, road conditions, tyres) and get a 'general' setting for my bike, then I can start to refine it to me more.

When I was at the track, I got a few tyre spins out of exits (I know, tyres cold? no. Too much power down? probably. Crap on the track? most likely), the front gets real twitchy under power, which I know - it's a powerful bike, so it will, but I've heard a few pros say that dampers are often over-rated, and should only be fitted after the suspension has been set up. I can't afford a decent damper at the moment, but toying with the settings are free. I've had more slappers than a decent night on K'rd, which I enjoy now, and deal with, but round corners, I feel I have to back off a bit, instead of pushing it thru, cos the front feels too hard. I'm not using the full length of the forks either (well, rarely do). The brakes are cooking (which I was told by a few, is a partial result of the suspension not being right), and just over all, the bike feels harder than other bikes I've sat on.

I've gone this long, and I can't afford more toys to stick on it at the moment, and it's never been set, so I want to do it, and do it the right way (not get it right cos that takes time), so that I can gain some more confidence, and just better my abilities on the bike. I know there's no magic number someone has just for me, but I need something to start on. So I'll try those sag settings unless anyone else has any better facts n figures, and go from there..

[Ducman]

I guess it depends on the origional geometry of the bike.. raising the rear made a huge improvment on my bike

[cowpoos]

Other way round. Raising the rear ride height alters the swing arm angle and can cause traction problems accelerating out of corners. This is from the gospel according to Ohlins.

he has fitted a high profile front tyre...by 5mm

[bugjuice]

yeah, which would raise the front by around ~5mm (at new, the tyre is worn now), so by dropping the forks back down ~5mm, it'd theoretically bring the front of the bike back down to the stock height. Only diff, is it's change the rake by something like 0.005°

[Lou Girardin]

I think Ohlins is refering to the swing arm angle in relation to the frame of the bike, not to ground level.
If you increase the angle by raising ride height, which is lengthening the shocks overall length, torque reaction on the swingarm is increased due to the increased angle and this effectively stiffens the rear susp under acceleration.
At least that's how it sounded to me.

[2_SL0]

I am far from qualified to help but I will tell what I have done to mine. I set the rear sag for my weight. Its a simple task, it made a dramatic difference to how my bike felt. I touched nothing else for a month or so. Then I took the bike out to a piece of road I know well. I adjusted one setting fully one way. Took the bike for spin. Adjusted the setting fully the other way, again took the bike for a spin. That gave me a very clear picture of what that adjustment did. I then used the factory setting as my start point and adjusted from that. I also did a lot of reading on the subject. But I dont ride my bike anywhere near what its capabilities are, when I reach that point the setting will require adjustment again no doubt.